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Got fired from my church gig...

#241
Deluge Of Sound said:
My old church was Episcopal, but close enough. :D

I'm going to assume that church-with-band is more of a mega-church phenomenon?

EDIT: Found a picture of the pipe organ.

_MG_5170_edited_web.jpg
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nah, they been using drums, bass, guitar and organ (hammond, not pipe) in black churches and pentecostal churches forever. It's spread to more evangelical type churches in the last 20 years and most modern, evangelical churches use more modern music now, from rock based to gospel based. It's just a matter of adapting to the times and using modern music to appeal to a new generation. Message hasn't changed, just the style of music.
 
#242
gmarcus said:
You see this is what happen when people loose the spirit. I was gone at the $200K+ sound system....at church. That is so self indulgent. Step out of the way and let the spirit play you.

By the way are there any churches in Cambridge MA looking for a bass player? I just haven't been able to hook up since I moved back here last summer. I'm looking for a spirit filled place with nice people with kids. The music doesn't have to be great, just meaningful.
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I can see spending that money if it's on a scale commensurate with the ministry. It's not unreasonable IMO if you have several thousand in attendance. In fact it would probably be low.

But the chances of having no one who knows how to run that setup are practically nil elsewhere.
 
#243
Brad,

Can't stop laughing.....! This is one of the funniest threads I have read:D. You have just described most of the stuff that goes on with cats who take MM and MD jobs in churches. Many rarely have experience in leading and organizing people. The reality is that those positions require more than just talented musicians. As I just stated, those positions are about organization, relationships, and leadership. Not many people in those positions have those attributes. And yes, I am speaking from a wealth of experience.

Stay up man. Your still the man.
 
#244
It's all in your first post...

====

Brad Johnson said:
I was told their equipment setup ran in excess of $200k
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+

Brad Johnson said:
They decided to do away with all amps onstage and have the musicians only use monitors.
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+



Brad Johnson said:
I brought a small combo amp (smaller than the monitor we had) in the following Sunday
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+

Brad Johnson said:
He also said the pastor asked what was up with me, I never speak to him. He also asked why there was an amp onstage.
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=

Brad Johnson said:
he and the new music director under him and the pastor were frustrated with me...... I was fired effective the end of the month.
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Medium Sized Chruch Gig Suicide .. and you didn't realize it?

Brad Johnson said:
Never mind the fact that they had no reason to fire me,
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======

I was hoping we could discuss how to not derail a good thing... this stuff is fairly common.

I have nothing against you -- just interested in your post.
 
#246
MNAirHead said:
It's all in your first post...

====



+



+





+



=




Medium Sized Chruch Gig Suicide .. and you didn't realize it?





======

I was hoping we could discuss how to not derail a good thing... this stuff is fairly common.

I have nothing against you -- just interested in your post.
Click to expand...

In all seriousness I don't have a clue where you're coming from. I don't understand your quoting methodology, I don't understand why you quoted what you did. I don't have any idea what fundraising has to do with this or in ear monitors. I'm drawing a blank. I think the idea that I commited some sort of gig suicide is simply goofy. Particularly in the context of what you quoted, out of context.

And nothing you continue to write seems to clear any of this up. So I'll just remain in the dark as far as you.

Thanks. I guess we're done.
:)
 
#247
minuseri said:
Brad,

Can't stop laughing.....! This is one of the funniest threads I have read:D. You have just described most of the stuff that goes on with cats who take MM and MD jobs in churches. Many rarely have experience in leading and organizing people. The reality is that those positions require more than just talented musicians. As I just stated, those positions are about organization, relationships, and leadership. Not many people in those positions have those attributes. And yes, I am speaking from a wealth of experience.

Stay up man. Your still the man.
Click to expand...

Nah, I commited medium sized church gig suicide... didn't ya know?
:D

This thread has been fun. And in spite of what some think, I spent a large portion of my time during and after this laughing... because it was downright silly. I'm used to adults acting silly so it's not like it was a shock. I had to control my laughter at the final meeting with the pastor and MM. The lying was so ridiculous and transparent... hey, at least put some effort into it.

And I'm still not wounded and these non-existent wounds are not fresh. I'm not crushed, I'm not disillusioned.
:(



:D
 
#248
standupright said:
without reading the entire first post.....

HOW DO YOU GET FIRED FROM CHURCH???
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Oh, there are many ways to get fired from "Church." I was a producer of a radio program that won national awards. The program had 44,000 listeners per week according to Arbitron. It doesn't matter how "good" you are - it's the fact that someone or the community has to "support" you. You can be the best at what you do - since, after all, it's a talent that God has given to you - but if you're a threat to someone, then all bets are off.

Z
 
#249
Brad Johnson said:
... I don't make the performance, I want to make the performance better. I don't need a solo, I don't care if the basswork is simple or complicated, I have fun putting out a great band performance. It ain't about me.
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From several things you've posted about the MM more than hint that he was threatened by you in some way. Maybe he knew you could see through the deficiencies in the way he was running the ensemble, and it's possible that he didn't know how to correct them. If he's not a strong enough individual to even be able to consider his own deficiencies make the personal changes necessary, or ask for and get the help needed to make things better, then he needed to make the personnel changes necessary to suit his insecurity. Your offering suggestions was not taken as the helpful advice that it was, but as a demonstration of superior knowledge that he was threatened by.

It does seem as if there were attempts to completely sabotage you, in which case the MM is not only not being a good christian but seems to be failing to be a decent human being period.

The bigger problem in this whole ordeal seems to be the pastor. The fish stinks from the head, as they say. If the pastor was perhaps a little more - supportive?, open?, compassionate?, understanding? - then the MM may be more likely to feel comfortable admitting any possible musical/leadership inadequacies and start moving in a positive direction.

The outright lying that you noted is incredible, but some people respond that way when they are backed into a corner. A church situation should be the easiest place to admit these types of errors and find the support needed to get redeemed and improve things, but unfortunately that's not always the case.

I quoted the above because it's likely that the MM cannot relate to this musical perspective at all, and that's a shame because the music he is in charge of is surely suffering because of it. Plus, it's not likely he's getting all of the joy of the music he's playing that he could be.
 
#250
gmarcus said:
You see this is what happen when people loose the spirit. I was gone at the $200K+ sound system....at church. That is so self indulgent. Step out of the way and let the spirit play you.
Click to expand...
Several folks have commented on this, and I agree.

I think that most church-going folk don't really realize the expense that goes into the infrastructure. Some of the big churches spend ten-, twenty-, fifty-, up to a hundred thousand dollars plus just on a mixing console. The audio systems run upwards of a million dollars plus and the A/V systems into the millions in total, easily.

The mega-churches are even more excessive, essentially putting on concert-size productions every Sunday in their worship halls - which in some cases are actually old concert halls or arenas. The expense of these sound systems is tremendous, and knowing that there are people in need right in their own communities it's enough to make...

Well, I'll leave my off-color commentary out of it.
 
#251
As a Christian, I've seen plenty of cases where the corrupting influences of pride, greed, lust for power, and the desire to build an empire ruined the church experience for many.

It's certainly not what Jesus had in mind.

But I must say that my current experience with our small church (50ish attendance) is quite different. There is genuine humility and sincerity among the leadership, and the worship leader is a terrific guy to work with. Of course, we are not paid players, but for a tiny church, we have a killer band.
 
#254
Pat C. said:
From several things you've posted about the MM more than hint that he was threatened by you in some way. Maybe he knew you could see through the deficiencies in the way he was running the ensemble, and it's possible that he didn't know how to correct them. If he's not a strong enough individual to even be able to consider his own deficiencies make the personal changes necessary, or ask for and get the help needed to make things better, then he needed to make the personnel changes necessary to suit his insecurity. Your offering suggestions was not taken as the helpful advice that it was, but as a demonstration of superior knowledge that he was threatened by.

It does seem as if there were attempts to completely sabotage you, in which case the MM is not only not being a good christian but seems to be failing to be a decent human being period.

The bigger problem in this whole ordeal seems to be the pastor. The fish stinks from the head, as they say. If the pastor was perhaps a little more - supportive?, open?, compassionate?, understanding? - then the MM may be more likely to feel comfortable admitting any possible musical/leadership inadequacies and start moving in a positive direction.

The outright lying that you noted is incredible, but some people respond that way when they are backed into a corner. A church situation should be the easiest place to admit these types of errors and find the support needed to get redeemed and improve things, but unfortunately that's not always the case.

I quoted the above because it's likely that the MM cannot relate to this musical perspective at all, and that's a shame because the music he is in charge of is surely suffering because of it. Plus, it's not likely he's getting all of the joy of the music he's playing that he could be.
Click to expand...

This could very well be it. Quite often he mentioned that he thought the problem in the monitor the guitarist and I shared was due to a "bad cable". I explained that the variety of symptoms we had and the fact that they only occured on Sundays and then only when someone was seated at the console probably wasn't a coincidence. That bad cable would have to, on various occassions, make the guitar have malfunctions independent of the bass and vice versa... or both. All while screwing up other things in our mix.

I had swapped out direct boxes, monitors and everything except the lead to the snake (he wouldn't let me). Used several didfferent instruments, passive and active. They have over a dozen mics in the choir area going to another snake so I suggested we connect a DI to one of those cables that wasn't going to one of the racked mic preamps (some mics did, some didn't), set that channel identical to how ours was set (EQ, gains and pad) and see what happened. He said he didn't want to do that and lose the settings for that channel. I reminded him that was a digital board with memory.

I didn't say that to make him look stupid.
 
#256
Well, I attend one of the "MEGA" churches and have not found anything about in the Bible that says worship music has to be a particular genre! "Make a joyful noise....." I believe what's "joyful" is up to the beholder. I prefer to leave feeling more fired up than when I arrived.

Some say there's no place for Guitars and Drums in church. Well, If we want to stay on the original course, guess organs and piano's are out and we all need to grab a harp and lute!

Brad's experience is a common one. Different expectations by different skill levels. Nothing wrong with striving for excellence. Think thats a Biblical concept!

Come to Northern California Brad. We allow amps on stage! Regular rehearsals and have fun! :bassist:

One of our more "lively" Christmas Eve services below. Not for the faint of heart! :eek:



BTW, some of you familiar with the CCM scene will recognize our worship leader! :D
 
#258
Pat C. said:
Several folks have commented on this, and I agree.

I think that most church-going folk don't really realize the expense that goes into the infrastructure. Some of the big churches spend ten-, twenty-, fifty-, up to a hundred thousand dollars plus just on a mixing console. The audio systems run upwards of a million dollars plus and the A/V systems into the millions in total, easily.

The mega-churches are even more excessive, essentially putting on concert-size productions every Sunday in their worship halls - which in some cases are actually old concert halls or arenas. The expense of these sound systems is tremendous, and knowing that there are people in need right in their own communities it's enough to make...

Well, I'll leave my off-color commentary out of it.
Click to expand...

I think God deserves our best and that includes the best sound/light/staging/etc... we can afford. Just because these churches are spending money on those things doesn't mean they aren't helping the poor; in fact, many of them draw large numbers of people specifically because they enjoy the worship (whether that's a pure motive or not is another thread). Those people give their offerings which in many cases allows the church to do even bigger things as far as giving to the poor than they would have been able to do otherwise. I'll just use our church as an example. Because of our facilities and equipment we are able to put on a huge Christmas Eve production every year, which draws a lot of people not normally associated with our church. Every year we take up an offering of which 100% goes to a specific NFP organization either locally or overseas. There have been years that offering was over $150K. That's on top of the enormous amount of resources - time and money - we give away to needy people all year long.

Sometimes I think people pick bones about sound equipment, buildings and other things just because they like to complain or try to make a point. However, if you look at what many churches are doing - I'll use Willow Creek and Saddleback specifically - they are funding huge programs for the poor here and overseas. A lot of that is due to drawing so many people which is due to both the teaching and the production aspect of the music on Sundays, both of which are made relevant to the modern world by being modern stylistically. Bach was contemporary in his time, Luther was contemporary in his time, the Wesley brothers were contemporary in their time, yet some people believe the modern church should be stuck in the 16th Century as regards music, sound and lighting, as well as preaching style. There's nothing wrong with staying relevant to your day and age, in fact, I think it's what Jesus and Paul would teach us to do. The Psalmist said to sing a new song to the Lord and play skillfully, not play 500 year old songs poorly.
 

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