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Maybe I’m pessimistic but this sounds like a run of the mill fleecing to me. I
“Big label” young Turk bad boys break away to buck trends and shake up music as a whole, all they need is xyz.
huge nope vibes.
No need for a lawyer, most likely. Hell, I’d just contact whatever big brand they claimed to work for, confirm or disconfirm that they ever worked there, and then ask why they were fired.
But, in the event you DO end up needing a lawyer to look over some documents, most (in the US) will offer a free consult where you can get many questions answered for free- so long as you keep in mind that a lawyer is just like the label. They’re looking to secure revenue. Ridiculous legalese is a prime example. They’ll codify things that require their “expertise” to decipher, guaranteeing that you’ll be back at some point.
Godspeed and remember the days of royalties paying for much and jets carting you to gigs are long gone. Especially when it comes to streaming revenue. You get a bunch of streams of your material, you know who makes the most money? Whoever is the top 3 in streaming on your platform and their labels and lawyers.
“Big label” young Turk bad boys break away to buck trends and shake up music as a whole, all they need is xyz.
huge nope vibes.
No need for a lawyer, most likely. Hell, I’d just contact whatever big brand they claimed to work for, confirm or disconfirm that they ever worked there, and then ask why they were fired.
But, in the event you DO end up needing a lawyer to look over some documents, most (in the US) will offer a free consult where you can get many questions answered for free- so long as you keep in mind that a lawyer is just like the label. They’re looking to secure revenue. Ridiculous legalese is a prime example. They’ll codify things that require their “expertise” to decipher, guaranteeing that you’ll be back at some point.
Godspeed and remember the days of royalties paying for much and jets carting you to gigs are long gone. Especially when it comes to streaming revenue. You get a bunch of streams of your material, you know who makes the most money? Whoever is the top 3 in streaming on your platform and their labels and lawyers.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
There was a whole lot more involved in what happened with him than the record deal, and I'm not sure whose side I believe. Fogerty was mad that Fantasy owned CCR's publishing, and while I have a hard time blaming him, he signed the contract. And bands owning their own publishing was pretty uncommon back in those days, especially new bands.
Now Fantasy suing Fogerty for ripping off his own song after "Old Man Down The Road" came out...that was messed up.
I’m going to take a wild guess that you are not a lawyer
Ok. I’d recommend prevention rather than cure when it comes to contracts.
- Jan 5, 2017
- 253
- 430
- Disclosures
- No one in their right mind would pay me to endorse them....
The contract is not the starting point of the negotiation...it's the end point. It is supposed to memorialize the deal between the parties. If one side doesn't understand the deal but signs the contract anyway, there's no negotiation after that because under the law the negotiation is concluded and the language of the contract prevails. The recourse of the party that realizes he or she did not understand the deal at that point is litigation. And if you truly do not want to have to pay lawyers money you do not have, you do not want to get to that stage. Litigation is usually ridiculously expensive and very seldom results in a satisfactory conclusion to the dispute. This is why you have to (a) understand the deal and (b) understand what the contract says before you sign it. And if you don't have the legal training or background to understand it, that is what the lawyers are for. Few non-lawyers do and even some lawyers who don't specialize in that area don't truly understand it either. A lot of people don't like lawyers or want one or want to pay one until they need one, and then they are really, really happy they're there.
If they're bad people, a good contract will help keep them on their best behavior. If they're good people, a good contract shouldn't change them.
It's been a while since I've heard of a record deal being based on a gentlemans agreement, or a handshake, but most of those have worked out pretty amicably - if not hugely financially profitable.
They don't have to be bad. They just have to hand you a one sided contract and then golly gee hold you to it. They could take on an extra partner who is a real shark for that side of the biz.
When everyone tells you its a bad deal, pay a lawyer to tell you the same thing.
For some reason, I was signed out of the website so I didn’t get the “alert” until I coincidentally stopped by just now. Always happy to try and help so apologies for the delay in responding.
After 3 years of law school, the basic answer to most client questions (including this one) is: It depends. J
I skimmed through the posts and my initial response would be to agree with those who are basically asking: Why are you doing this deal?
I get calls from potential clients all the time who have a deal they want reviewed and, without exception, I tell them I have no interest in looking at the terms of the deal until I have a lot of information answering some of the questions that have been raised in this thread. The most important question, to me, is whether this label has a demonstrated ability to help a band like yours achieve whatever is you want achieved.
For example, I had a rapper client that was being offered competing deals by Def Jam and another label. The deal with the other label was “better”? Why was that? Because that label had a horrible track record breaking rap artists while Def Jam had considerable success in doing so. Therefore, the other label knew they had to offer more to get the client to sign. However, was it really better? It depends.
The check from the other label was unquestionably bigger and they were basically making the pitch “we know we suck, but we want to change our rep in the biz and you’re our guy to do it. We’re going to throw everything we have at this album because we can’t afford another failure.” I told the client to take the Def Jam deal even though the other deal was “better”. As is very common, the bigger check won out. The album came out, flopped, and the artist was basically tainted (i.e., other labels usually aren’t too keen on signing someone who flopped after the original label spent $2-3M trying to break the artist).
It’s one reason I always tell clients not to do the vocal competition shows, although I’ve had clients on all three (The Voice, American Idol, and AGT). If the client does well enough to make Top 10 (which 2 of my clients did) but fail to win, then most labels will say (internally) “Wow, they had millions of people watching them week after week and they didn’t connect with fans. If they aren’t connecting with fans after all that exposure then …”
Yes, I’m sure there are exceptions, but you have to give the client advice way in advance of having any idea how they’ll come across on television. I also think labels generally feel these singers are just that: They’re singers. Not artists. And it’s artists that have careers.
But I digress.
Whether a deal is “good” or “bad” or “right” or “wrong” depends on many, many things. Again, I would make sure you have clarity on their artistic vision for the band, what contractual obligations they are willing to commit to in order to help you achieve success, and do they have a demonstrated ability to achieve that success for a similar band to yours. And keep in mind: labels, publishers, managers, and agents are usually expert at making you “feel” like they are the keys to your success. I strongly recommend your first steps be to get a very clear artistic vision, plan, and execution. And, to be clear, I’m not taking about royalties, advances, and all the other sexy stuff. I’m simply saying make sure these are the people you want to work with (and not just because they’re the only ones showing interest). I have plenty of clients who make a couple of “demos” with labels just to see how things feel in the studio before committing to a larger deal. If a label won’t even go into a studio to make a little music with an artist, I would be somewhat suspect.
All that said, it sounds like there may not be much money here. However, many labels will advance a new artist some legal fees, in part, because the label wants some protection from the artist saying they weren’t represented by counsel when making the deal.
Again, it doesn’t sound like there is a lot of money here so I understand the options may be limited, but I would offer some cautionary advice to using a “percentage” lawyer (i.e., they get paid when the artist gets paid) that is meant more as a general comment than being applicable here specifically. Here in the US, a client can fire their lawyer at any time for any reason. And what I’ve seen happen is where the percentage lawyer structures the deal more favorably on the front end (i.e., while they are likely to be still involved and getting paid). It’s happened to me twice where I’ve worked with an artist on a percentage and was fired when the money really started rolling in. It’s easy to give away 5% of nothing. It gets a lot more real when the artist starts writing checks to managers, agents, lawyers, business managers, etc. Point is, a lot of lawyers have “been there in the beginning” only to get pushed out when things start popping. I think it’s hard for some lawyers not to have that in the back of their mind (which they shouldn’t, but …).
If you go back and really do your homework and you feel like your musical life simply can’t proceed without this label involved and your clear as to why that is, then I would be happy to discuss some specifics.
Best,
MA
I’m not a lawyer, but those percentages sound pretty awful. You can get yourself on all the streaming platforms (and there are companies that will manage all that for a small fee). Streaming royalties are bad anyway and giving away 70% means that you’ll get a fraction of it very much. As for the live bookings, I guess it depends if they are booking you higher paying gigs than you can book yourself.
what are you getting from them in exchange for what they’re taking from you?
Ya, I'd want some performance guarantees for sure. And that's where a lawyer comes in.
If they're putting you on as second support act, for another band they manage / represent, in 1000 capacity venues ; it's a dead end.
If they're securing you as the main support act for the next BTS world tour, a 360 deal can work out pretty well for everyone.
