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It's a great point to consider. A sad fact of adult life is that if you want to make money, you have to make someone else money first. A guy i came up with and actually learned to play bass with had his band semi-famously doomed by a really good contract. Now he makes a really good living selling real estate.I used to do this professionally back in the day, ending in 2002. I've had 3 major label deals (Capital, Atlantic and Interscope). Both bands had very solid, airtight contracts by "big name" music attornies. While the advice of getting an attorney is paramount, there is unfortunately an immutable yet little known truth. With few exceptions (repeat, few exceptions) all things being equal (music, image, label, etc), a band with a better recording contract will attain less success than a band with a bad one. Why? Because the record company will work harder for what has a greater potential profit, period. The younger A/R guys (from my day) may or may not not agree, but the OG cigar chomping moguls got rich off it. If all the artists that we know from rock 'n roll history had great contracts, the landscape would look different. Maybe not wildly different, but different.
When I got back into music a few years ago, I was in disbelief with these 360 deals, but it is what it is. And Napster and [you] younger guys are to blame, believing art has not value. And who are our icons now? American Idol winners? No, thanks.
I believe we'll probably never see again the type of giants that were created with the advent of radio, films, TV and MTV. IMO we'll go back to music being a "folk" thing where everybody plays something, a little, like 100 years ago. When I was a kid, a kid who had a Fender without taking music serious was a spoiled brat. Now, my generation of parents spoil our kids with tiny instruments, medium instruments, decent instruments all through their upbringing and for the most part they were just used and abused as toys. A lot more guitars yet a lot less guitar heroes now. There's a lot less yearning and a lot more satiating.
That's all I got for today. I gotta take a nap and tell the neighborhood kids to get off my damned lawn.
Please see “Oasis” and “The Black Crowes”. You have even more to lose - you could end up destroying your relationship with him. You need to have a serious discusion w/ your brother and even though it feels weird put your agreement in writing.
And get a real entertainment lawyer. The first hour should be around $100 to $150. If you can’t afford that then you definitely should walk away.
If you wait a few years and come back with 5000 Facebook followers your negotiating position will be that much stronger. If you don’t get those followers then it was proabaly never meant to be anyway.
Yep, they'll fronting money to get us to play live at big event. Thing is, we can't afford lawyer yet
Thank you! But we can't afford to hire lawyer and manager yet. We're really new in this industry and don't know anyone. The label produce our songs, promote us, make video clip, etc. They'll give us stages and book places for us.
no, they'll give us 30% from digital selling and 70% from live performances
you can't afford NOT to hire a lawyer
I practiced entertainment law for a couple of decades and have owned a record label, a music publishing company, a production company, an entertainment marketing company, a recording studio and a post house. In 100% of the new artist deals I have seen that were signed without the artist(s) being represented by an experienced entertainment attorney, the artist(s) got screwed. Do not sign anything without legal advice and representation. If you can’t afford a lawyer, you can’t afford to risk signing a deal.
We're Lucky Pit and we uploaded the demo on YouTube, search Tru Colors (without E)
Thank you for promoting us! Sadly, I'm not in US, so I might be able to reach your friend yet.
John Fogerty fired his brother Tom from Creedence Clearwater Revival.
Just thought of this one...
Who actually owns the band name?
IIRC, there was a time in Fleetwood Mac's long career when their management (might have been label, the difference is not important to the story) owned the name "Fleetwood Mac" and took the position that "Fleetwood Mac is who we say it is" and started booking shows with players who had never even met 'Fleetwood Mac.' Lots of concert-goes felt justifiably ripped off and it was not easy repairing their reputation and getting rid of the bad guys.
You might find yourself on the outside looking in. As has been previously mentioned, it's fairly common for management to simply replace band members that don't have "the look."
Who actually owns the band name?
IIRC, there was a time in Fleetwood Mac's long career when their management (might have been label, the difference is not important to the story) owned the name "Fleetwood Mac" and took the position that "Fleetwood Mac is who we say it is" and started booking shows with players who had never even met 'Fleetwood Mac.' Lots of concert-goes felt justifiably ripped off and it was not easy repairing their reputation and getting rid of the bad guys.
You might find yourself on the outside looking in. As has been previously mentioned, it's fairly common for management to simply replace band members that don't have "the look."
I knew someone in a touring band WITH A FOLLOWING who signed on the dotted line. They were paid some money up front, and then had to tour. The label set up all the venues, and booked their terrible motels, and transportation. At the end of the tour the members of the band had to personally file for bankruptcy. The tour - which was zero glamour - had cost a fortune. Management co/label had a fee to collect for every venue booked, the bus (basic!) which carried them and all the tour gear had cost $$, they had hired roadies which cost $$, promotional expenses, etc. The label was the first to get paid. The band never saw a dime after their initial payment (maybe $5k ea?) and then had to buy their own fast food for the next 6 months. $200/week or less than $30/day doesn’t get you great meals. And that’s if you spent the $5k up front money on food during the tour.
At the end each band member owed around $25-30k back to the label. The band hadn’t formed an LLC - each member signed a contract. 6 months of cheap motels and crappy venues and bad food to then owe $25k.
Remember, after expenses, 70% of nothing is nothing.
At the end each band member owed around $25-30k back to the label. The band hadn’t formed an LLC - each member signed a contract. 6 months of cheap motels and crappy venues and bad food to then owe $25k.
Remember, after expenses, 70% of nothing is nothing.
MDBass
Supporting Member
- Nov 7, 2012
- 8,590
- 14,890
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Dingwall-Fender-Bergantino-Dunlop-Tech 21-Darkglass-Nordstrand
You haven’t actually told us what the offer is.
They’re asking for a certain percentage of your profits, what are they offering in return?
Recording advance (recoupable?), tour support (recoupable?), marketing budget (recoupable?), number of albums, etc.
Depending on those very important details, you could have anything from a once-in-a-lifetime golden ticket to a contract for indefinite indentured servitude on the table.
It can't repeated enough, although I'm sure we'll give a valiant effort: GET AN ENTERTAINMENT LAWYER! And here's why- This a legally binding contract that will follow you around until it has run it's course or you can get legally released from it. And that requires some serious lawyering $$$! Just because you decide that you know longer want to play in that sandbox, doesn't make it go away. You're still on the hook for everything you agreed to in that contract, which may include future intellectual properties for years down the road. You need to have someone go over that contract with a fine tooth comb and explain every sentence to you in detail. Unless you have enough money to change your name to an obscure symbol and work under that for the duration of your contract.
I broke my own rule and only read the first page; sorry. I will read the rest when I get home. Good luck!
I broke my own rule and only read the first page; sorry. I will read the rest when I get home. Good luck!
they offer to book us gigs, promoting us, producing our songs and they want 70% profit of digital selling and 30% profit from gig that they land for us. Basically they want to get money that they spend on us.
Been in that position before. The right thing to do is to have an entertainment lawyer look at the contract. They know what to look for. Depending on your age and or responsibilities (wether you have a wife and kids or no bills at all) it might be worth while or it might not. Buying on to good tours is expensive but you actually don’t even need a record deal for that, all you have to do is contact the booking agency for the bands you’d like to tour with and ask them what they are asking for. Typically the more shows your band plays on the tour the better the rate per show will be. Prices per single show can range from a couple hundred to upwards of 20k depending on the headlining band. But I highly recommend having enough merch to sell to help recoup expenses and I damn sure wouldn’t pay thousands of dollars to open for anyone. There was a band I won’t name that the booking folks wanted thousands of dollars to open for. We were able to contact the band directly and opened for them for WAY less money paying the band directly.
on a side note. Be careful. There’s a lot of scam artist and sociopaths around the music industry. I’ve gone through entire crazy situations where a person flew band members all the way across the country, interviewed every band member and in the end it turned out the contact who was supposedly A&R was a substitute teacher who paid for those plane tickets by taking out some loans.
- Apr 6, 2007
- 777
- 538
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Fishman Transducers, Aguilar Amplifiers, Ear Trumpet Labs
A good lawyer is not as expensive as you think, and you need one now more than you need anything else.
Everything you're describing is a red flag to me.
Might be ok if all the gross receipts are paid to you, and then you pay them their share of the profits, if any. Is that the deal?
- Jan 5, 2017
- 253
- 430
- Disclosures
- No one in their right mind would pay me to endorse them....
YOU MUST GET A LAWYER. I'm sorry to shout but this is not in the least bit optional. There are many lawyers who will work with you on fees, including on the back end. I can't emphasize this enough--you will regret it every day after you sign that contract if you don't get the right representation now.
I return you to your regularly scheduled volume. Seriously, best of luck to you. That's an awesome artistic opportunity, but you make your own luck in this arena. The label clearly thinks you're worth investing in. Well, guess what, in business everything's negotiable. If they don't want to negotiate, it's not business. It's exploitation.
I return you to your regularly scheduled volume. Seriously, best of luck to you. That's an awesome artistic opportunity, but you make your own luck in this arena. The label clearly thinks you're worth investing in. Well, guess what, in business everything's negotiable. If they don't want to negotiate, it's not business. It's exploitation.
