He does claim 550cc, but then he compares that to the 255cc for the DeltaliteII 2512, which is a Klippel measurement, so I assumed his was a Klippel measurement as well. If he's using one standard for his speaker then comparing to another speaker measured with a different standard that's troubling. It's kind of like saying this car gets 31 to the gallon of gas and that car gets 50 to the gallon, without mentioning the 31 was referring to miles and the 50 to kilometers, so they're actually the same. Now that you've brought it up I'm curious as to the actual frequency response of his twelve. He claims that it's similar to a 12HO, but with the xmax of a 12LF, and you can't have it both ways. At least you can't as far as I know, and if there was a driver that could do that economy of scale says it wouldn't be made available only to a small boutique manufacturer.
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Greenboy vs. Barefaced vs. Audiokinesis
- Thread starter bordinco90
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- audiokinesis barefaced greenboy vs.
As a barefaced owner, I'm interested in actual comparable data on the 12xn 550 driver. Only for curiosity, the cab is great, for what it is designed for.
Sadly, mr.claber doesn't participate to these debates as I would like, lately.
I think he is just too busy with his business, his cabs took off in the last two years, really.
Sadly, mr.claber doesn't participate to these debates as I would like, lately.
I think he is just too busy with his business, his cabs took off in the last two years, really.
More likely he had his fill of arguing with trolls and decided his time was better spent not doing that. He wouldn't be the first. BFM and Greenboy both came to the same conclusion.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Right, and for bass guitar I suspect that the LF response is a pretty important factor. It's loud because of the mid sensitivity, and pretty darn peaky as well.
I built a pair of Jack10s hoping they'd serve as dual purpose cabinets. I was disappointed.
For bass guitar, I found them honky and lacking in the lows. Probably the only times I used the Contour knob on a G-K head.
For small PA use, they needed A LOT of EQ to sound decent.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
He posts a little more on Basschat, but Basschat is definitely its own can o' worms. Link Removed
I'm in the camp that thinks 1 super 12 cab, whether it's Greenboy, AK, BF, Mesa, Genzler, LDS...(something based on/similar to a 3012LF/HO with or without a mid) is just not going to keep up with a modern, quality 410 cab not matter how much power you throw at it. A pair will. But a single will do an amazing amount and if you're not pushing your 410 to extremes a single super 12 will handle a lot of situations at a fraction of the size and weight of a 410. And it should have a dispersion advantage over the 410.
In regard to calculations, I purchased a super 2x8 that on paper would match or beat a top end 210. It did sound very nice but would give out well before even an average 210 in a side by side comparison. So I wouldn't try to compare cabs based on speaker cc's even if I thought they were good numbers.
I've settled in on two hathor 1203's. It's probable that a fearless 112 will go lower and maybe louder. But it will cost almost twice as much and be heavier. So for about the price of a single F112 I have two 1203's. About 75% of the time I only need one and it's incredibly small and light and sounds rich. A pair, with a high powered amp gets louder than I ever intend to play.
If I were in the UK I might have given barefaced more consideration. There are a host of awesome cab/amp options right now. Which works 'best' is dependent on each individual's tastes and situation. Hard to go wrong with any of them.
In regard to calculations, I purchased a super 2x8 that on paper would match or beat a top end 210. It did sound very nice but would give out well before even an average 210 in a side by side comparison. So I wouldn't try to compare cabs based on speaker cc's even if I thought they were good numbers.
I've settled in on two hathor 1203's. It's probable that a fearless 112 will go lower and maybe louder. But it will cost almost twice as much and be heavier. So for about the price of a single F112 I have two 1203's. About 75% of the time I only need one and it's incredibly small and light and sounds rich. A pair, with a high powered amp gets louder than I ever intend to play.
If I were in the UK I might have given barefaced more consideration. There are a host of awesome cab/amp options right now. Which works 'best' is dependent on each individual's tastes and situation. Hard to go wrong with any of them.
If your 410 is 8 Ohms and you are not pushing your amp that hard, then any of the above super cabs should be fine. However, if your box is 4 Ohms and you are flogging your Markbass into it, you might need more cab.
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Jack
Yup, according to the plots it looks like the magic from the horn loading drops off BIG somewhere between 200 and 250 Hz. And there's another big dip around 1kHz.
I'm sure they've got their uses, but I'm not sure I'd want a cab with those properties for my bass guitar .
Big props for BFM actually providing frequency response plots, however.
I think you'll be impressed & happy!
Yeah, looks like the 210 is down ~20dB @ 40Hz from where it is at 400Hz (if I read the chart correctly).
+1. I don't see any of his critics providing charts of their speakers, just excuses why they don't.
I haven't found anything else that I like as well, and that includes Fearful and Barefaced. I can't comment on Audiokinesis, I've never had the opportunity to try one.
It's all about finding the sound you like & part of that is the synergy between different parts of your rig combined with the way YOU play.
Never listen to anyone telling you that your rig sounds like crap, if it sounds good to you!
Well maybe except your bandmates, (but then some musicians have terrible sense of what tone sounds good, so maybe add a few grains of salt).
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
- Nov 24, 2008
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- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Alex makes killer cabs. My objection came when he went on a thread and compared my cab unfavorably with his, basing his claim on what turned out to be his use of a more optimistic yardstick. I have nothing but respect for Alex as an innovative and highly competent designer. His cabs probably are a little bit louder than my cabs which use factory 3012LF woofers, but it's not because his have the 10% greater displacement that he claimed.
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- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Then you haven't looked very hard IMO
We have provided the important low frequency response data points as well as a lot of useful additional data that NOBODY else provides, including BF...
Subway Ultra-Lite Bass Cabinet 1x12 | MESA/Boogie®
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I find this technical discussion of dispersion and such stats interesting. Interesting that people will buy a cab based on the numbers that is. Whatever happened to listening to a cab and making one's decision that way. I guess I am more of a rock n roller and less of an engineer. I have NO idea about any of the stats of my AK cabs, just that they are light, loud as F, and clean as a whistle. I mean, I know the wattage and ohmage and the basics. I can't see myself pouring over the data sheets of 8 different cab companies and choosing the one that had a few points higher x-max. Call me a fool but I don't get it. I am also pretty sure this is a bass player phenomenon, guitar players don't do this.
It's hard to try out any of these cabs; you'd be pretty lucky to get to try all three without buying.
The stats can certainly give you an idea of what you're gonna get as long as you understand what they are, their context , and how they translate into sound waves entering your head.
The stats can certainly give you an idea of what you're gonna get as long as you understand what they are, their context , and how they translate into sound waves entering your head.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I think a better use of the performance data gives the (educated) user an idea of what is a REASONABLE expectation of the performance the speaker is capable of (SPL versus low frequency extension), and how reliable it's likely to be when driven at different power levels. It is not very useful in describing voicing, or overdriven character however as this is probably some of the most misunderstood aspects of a speaker's performance. For this, there's no substitute to listening to one or trusting a reliable information source (ie. another qualified player or even a store that has well respected, trustworthy players on staff).
Remember, everybody has an opinion but some opinions are more often more accurate than others.
Remember, everybody has an opinion but some opinions are more often more accurate than others.
