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Hamer USA: bass design input request
- Thread starter hasbeen
- Start date
I hate to repeat myself, but taking Gibson guitar designs and making basses out of them isn't a winning strategy. There's a company that has tried that over and over again and failed every time except one, and that one time it wasn't a huge commercial success either, just enough to keep it going. This despite the HUGE brand recognition and cool-factor that the company has. Also despite the fact that they tried plenty of short scale designs at a time when short scale was a lot more popular than it is today.
What was that company's name again?
Oh, I'm specifically not talking about Bongos design above. That one is so far removed from the original as to showing no trace of it. I think that one actually works. It's not quite my cup of tea though.
What was that company's name again?
Oh, I'm specifically not talking about Bongos design above. That one is so far removed from the original as to showing no trace of it. I think that one actually works. It's not quite my cup of tea though.
If we're going to take a Gibson design and and rework it to the point where its different enough from the original to work for bass, I propose the following:
Start with the EB-3 body and make the horns a bit more rounded to blend better with the rest of the body, Then extend the upper horn A LOT.
Now you have a Wal mark I
Then move the bridge back to the edge of the body and deepen the cutaway some to maintain decent upper fret access, although the upper most fret will suffer a bit to keep the look right. Now the 12th fret will be more in line with the end of upper horn. Should balance well enough for a 5-string but still look more like a mark I and not like the mark II. I think the mark I body style is the most attractive Wal but it has never been available in a 5. Make sure the model has some kind of filter. Doesn't have to be a copy of the Wal filter as long as there's control over the resonant frequency. Acg pre perhaps?
Start with the EB-3 body and make the horns a bit more rounded to blend better with the rest of the body, Then extend the upper horn A LOT.
Now you have a Wal mark I
Then move the bridge back to the edge of the body and deepen the cutaway some to maintain decent upper fret access, although the upper most fret will suffer a bit to keep the look right. Now the 12th fret will be more in line with the end of upper horn. Should balance well enough for a 5-string but still look more like a mark I and not like the mark II. I think the mark I body style is the most attractive Wal but it has never been available in a 5. Make sure the model has some kind of filter. Doesn't have to be a copy of the Wal filter as long as there's control over the resonant frequency. Acg pre perhaps?
Well, I think if you talk about brand recognition then I'd say Hamer's brand recognition in the bass world is mostly as a maker of 12-string basses. Why not take the components they already use for the other instruments? Pickups and hardware that they use on the other basses. There is the Monaco Bass made from mahogany, so why not using maple in combination with the Phat Cats. There are so many active basses already to choose from. Reading many of the comments here I get the impression people just want reissues of past models or something that dozens of other companies already do. I guess we're not talking about a design that will be mass produced to be a big seller, are we?
Mix these two bodies. Use the green from the hamer guitar as finish. If you want add an F hole for fanciness. And then use a two piece like a warwick.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=549378 > Primarily for the shape... don't worry about losing the head.
http://home.comcast.net/~sca964/hamer_cali.jpg > primarily for the awesome green
http://media.photobucket.com/image/warwick bridge/dominantmusic/blue.jpg > a nice quality bridge like this
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=549378 > and toss in an F hole or two
Have it neck through but with chambored wings. If you want it to rock have it come standard with EMG DC35 in neck and bridge position. Sinister green burst finish. Graphtech trem nut, schaller strap locks or dunlop dual design. Obviously with the green black hardware is a must. If dunlop chosen use hipshot tuners and if schaller chosen use schaller tuners.
Think sinister vampire bass. Something that nosferatu would take to church. You know if I have a chance tomorrow I might just do a mock up of my suggestion. Be forewarned it will be legendary.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=549378 > Primarily for the shape... don't worry about losing the head.
http://home.comcast.net/~sca964/hamer_cali.jpg > primarily for the awesome green
http://media.photobucket.com/image/warwick bridge/dominantmusic/blue.jpg > a nice quality bridge like this
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=549378 > and toss in an F hole or two
Have it neck through but with chambored wings. If you want it to rock have it come standard with EMG DC35 in neck and bridge position. Sinister green burst finish. Graphtech trem nut, schaller strap locks or dunlop dual design. Obviously with the green black hardware is a must. If dunlop chosen use hipshot tuners and if schaller chosen use schaller tuners.
Think sinister vampire bass. Something that nosferatu would take to church. You know if I have a chance tomorrow I might just do a mock up of my suggestion. Be forewarned it will be legendary.
A refined singlecut that's not in the Fodera vein, like the Bolin NS, is what would come to mind for me if you mentioned Hamer.
The Monaco has a cool vibe about it, but it seems rather rectangular and bulky-it's not a very graceful design. Something like this might be more appealing to people.
That said, as others have mentioned, the Hamer formula of improving Gibson guitar designs doesn't seem to work so well with basses, since the Gibson bass designs are/were inherently flawed in several respects, and players are used to instruments that are somewhat more refined in terms of features and ergonomics.
I think that a positive approach for Hamer would be to keep the general aesthetic going-sunbursts, flame maple, mahogany, set-neck construction, etc.-but to incorporate modern boutique features like dual-coil pickups in the Fodera vein, better ergonomics, extended range, etc. Hamer hasn't really done that much with preamps in the past, aside from EMG stuff, so a simple passive setup could work well and differentiate the bass from others in its market segment. The boutique sector is a very crowded market, but I think Hamer could do something appealing with it, especially if the concern isn't selling very many.
If you wanted to do something that's not off the shelf, I'd look at Lakland for some things-they've done an excellent job of taking the vintage aesthetic and doing their own thing with it, especially with models like the Hollowbody and the Decade. The Chi-Sonic pickups are another thing that they've done well with as far as an update of classic aesthetics.
The Monaco has a cool vibe about it, but it seems rather rectangular and bulky-it's not a very graceful design. Something like this might be more appealing to people.
That said, as others have mentioned, the Hamer formula of improving Gibson guitar designs doesn't seem to work so well with basses, since the Gibson bass designs are/were inherently flawed in several respects, and players are used to instruments that are somewhat more refined in terms of features and ergonomics.
I think that a positive approach for Hamer would be to keep the general aesthetic going-sunbursts, flame maple, mahogany, set-neck construction, etc.-but to incorporate modern boutique features like dual-coil pickups in the Fodera vein, better ergonomics, extended range, etc. Hamer hasn't really done that much with preamps in the past, aside from EMG stuff, so a simple passive setup could work well and differentiate the bass from others in its market segment. The boutique sector is a very crowded market, but I think Hamer could do something appealing with it, especially if the concern isn't selling very many.
If you wanted to do something that's not off the shelf, I'd look at Lakland for some things-they've done an excellent job of taking the vintage aesthetic and doing their own thing with it, especially with models like the Hollowbody and the Decade. The Chi-Sonic pickups are another thing that they've done well with as far as an update of classic aesthetics.
Mass produced might be a stretch, given Hamers market bracket. But I don't think Hamer would be asking hasbeen for advice unless they had bigger hopes for this model than just another bass in their lineup that gets more or less completely (and unfairly!) ignored by the majority of the bass playing population.
Hamer does have their sub $1000 budget line, but i agree that this project is probably not intended for that line. The peculiar thing about the Hamer pricelist is the huge gap between $1000 and $3500. There's nothing there. I think Hamer would do well by changing that.
+1000 on bringing back the old USA cruisebass.
My '96 2-tek fiver still gets as many compliments as it did the day I got it ... and back THEN, there was a naked woman hiding behind the bass in the ad! Says a lot for the bass now if it's still turning heads!
My '96 2-tek fiver still gets as many compliments as it did the day I got it ... and back THEN, there was a naked woman hiding behind the bass in the ad! Says a lot for the bass now if it's still turning heads!
Hope you don't mind, I re-worked your drawing to my taste:
Link Removed
I would rock the hell out of this, definatly, if I was the one designing it though, I'd make one change. Passive three way toggle-master volume-master tone, like this.
*I know the switch is terrible, just started with Gimp today.
*This!
but with different pickups/placement
i really would like a dark stared semi-hollow like this body shape
A mass production of the Night Falcon, maybe?
but with different pickups/placement
i really would like a dark stared semi-hollow like this body shape
scotch
It's not rocket science!
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They will already make you this.
Or this if you want it.
...
These pics have got me thinking & brewed up some questions...
I'm aware (and it seems obvious) that Hamer has been influenced heavily by Gibson in both their guitars & basses. What's interesting, to me, though- is that the instruments Hamer has inspired are pretty divergent. It seems that Hamer's guitars gave birth to the archetypal Paul Reed Smith design, while the basses seem to have calved Dean's offerings.
Is there any more depth to these relationships that I don't know about? It seems like PRS took the short horn & carved tops of Hamer and produced a line of super-high quality guitars that appeal to a wide range of styles. Dean, on the other hand, seems to have blatantly copied Hamer's bass designs and headstock shape and simply put out cheap instruments with a decidedly narrow heavy-metal following. Am I getting this wrong?
I like the looks of such a bass, but the ergonomics simply aren't there. An unbalanced bass simply doesn't work for someone who needs to play around the neck all night.
A recurring theme in this thread is the complaint that the upper horn on a Jr-style body doesn't work for longer scales. FYI, here are examples of original Hamer body styles with longer upper horns:
The Prototype
Same shape used on the Phantom Custom:
The Jeff Watson
The Mirage
What do you guys think? I personally like the Prototype/Phantom Custom shape a lot. I brought up the idea of a Prototype Bass to Jol years ago. His reply was that they'd already done that with the original Cruise bass, but I think he confused the Prototype with the Phantom, which I personally find to be an ugly shape, and I think most people agree:
The Prototype
Same shape used on the Phantom Custom:
The Jeff Watson
The Mirage
What do you guys think? I personally like the Prototype/Phantom Custom shape a lot. I brought up the idea of a Prototype Bass to Jol years ago. His reply was that they'd already done that with the original Cruise bass, but I think he confused the Prototype with the Phantom, which I personally find to be an ugly shape, and I think most people agree:
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A refined singlecut that's not in the Fodera vein, like the Bolin NS, is what would come to mind for me if you mentioned Hamer.
The Monaco has a cool vibe about it, but it seems rather rectangular and bulky-it's not a very graceful design. Something like this might be more appealing to people.
That said, as others have mentioned, the Hamer formula of improving Gibson guitar designs doesn't seem to work so well with basses, since the Gibson bass designs are/were inherently flawed in several respects, and players are used to instruments that are somewhat more refined in terms of features and ergonomics.
I think that a positive approach for Hamer would be to keep the general aesthetic going-sunbursts, flame maple, mahogany, set-neck construction, etc.-but to incorporate modern boutique features like dual-coil pickups in the Fodera vein, better ergonomics, extended range, etc. Hamer hasn't really done that much with preamps in the past, aside from EMG stuff, so a simple passive setup could work well and differentiate the bass from others in its market segment. The boutique sector is a very crowded market, but I think Hamer could do something appealing with it, especially if the concern isn't selling very many.
If you wanted to do something that's not off the shelf, I'd look at Lakland for some things-they've done an excellent job of taking the vintage aesthetic and doing their own thing with it, especially with models like the Hollowbody and the Decade. The Chi-Sonic pickups are another thing that they've done well with as far as an update of classic aesthetics.
Great post! Nice bass too. Thanks.
+1 for the Lakland Hollowbody bass concept--a traditional-looking hollowbody that is also balanced and contoured. If Hamer did something like that it wouldn't have to be a copy at all; it could be a sculptured Monaco shape, for example.
There are other ergonomic features that could make it more playable and distinctive, such as an asymmetrical neck profile and compound radius fingerboard.
Hamer could also borrow Kaman and Ovation technology in the areas of piezo pickups and composites. What about a strong, rigid, lightweight composite neck and combination of magnetic and piezo pickups (a la the Duotone), or maybe a Lightwave style bridge pickup plus a magnetic pickup?
There are other ergonomic features that could make it more playable and distinctive, such as an asymmetrical neck profile and compound radius fingerboard.
Hamer could also borrow Kaman and Ovation technology in the areas of piezo pickups and composites. What about a strong, rigid, lightweight composite neck and combination of magnetic and piezo pickups (a la the Duotone), or maybe a Lightwave style bridge pickup plus a magnetic pickup?
I hate to repeat myself, but taking Gibson guitar designs and making basses out of them isn't a winning strategy. There's a company that has tried that over and over again and failed every time except one, and that one time it wasn't a huge commercial success either, just enough to keep it going. This despite the HUGE brand recognition and cool-factor that the company has. Also despite the fact that they tried plenty of short scale designs at a time when short scale was a lot more popular than it is today.
What was that company's name again?
well the reason you have to keep repeating yourself is because there is an entire thread of people asking for it. the OP asked opinions and everybody went right to what Hamer was best known and loved for. to me the Hamer brand disappeared when they made the departure from it. i couldnt tell you one guitar or bass from Hamers current line up and im sure several couldnt either but when asked what we would like to see from them everyone jumped to exactly the things they loved from Hamer that disappeared.
back then it didnt keep the boat a float because there was a $500-700 difference between Hamer and Gibson. Now Gibson went all crazy pants and there would be about $1500 bare minimum difference...and in this economy that means alot.
most people who arent label whores will also tell you a USA Hamer will compete nose to nose with Gibsons quality any day and in several instances win out especially when bang for buck comes to mind.
to see Hamer pull off something sick like a flame top silverburst LP style bass with a 2tek and an F Hole with custom block and binding or the explorer bodies or 8 string V's isnt super outside the box but since Hamer stopped doing it, it disappeared completely and left a whole. im certainly not saying rehash the 80's...im saying take the stuff you did well and have a good reputation based on and add the innovation and technology thats available today that the others are refusing to make the change to and you just may be on to something good. the OP asked and people responded and while TBers may not be the majority, most of us are REAL bassist who know what we like, what we miss and whats missing out there.
A refined singlecut that's not in the Fodera vein, like the Bolin NS, is what would come to mind for me if you mentioned Hamer.
The Monaco has a cool vibe about it, but it seems rather rectangular and bulky-it's not a very graceful design. Something like this might be more appealing to people.
That said, as others have mentioned, the Hamer formula of improving Gibson guitar designs doesn't seem to work so well with basses, since the Gibson bass designs are/were inherently flawed in several respects, and players are used to instruments that are somewhat more refined in terms of features and ergonomics.
I think that a positive approach for Hamer would be to keep the general aesthetic going-sunbursts, flame maple, mahogany, set-neck construction, etc.-but to incorporate modern boutique features like dual-coil pickups in the Fodera vein, better ergonomics, extended range, etc. Hamer hasn't really done that much with preamps in the past, aside from EMG stuff, so a simple passive setup could work well and differentiate the bass from others in its market segment. The boutique sector is a very crowded market, but I think Hamer could do something appealing with it, especially if the concern isn't selling very many.
If you wanted to do something that's not off the shelf, I'd look at Lakland for some things-they've done an excellent job of taking the vintage aesthetic and doing their own thing with it, especially with models like the Hollowbody and the Decade. The Chi-Sonic pickups are another thing that they've done well with as far as an update of classic aesthetics.
Great post other than the single cut idea, I personally find all single cuts to be very unattractive.
Sorry. I don't see the "tons" of Cruise basses that can be found for sale everywhere. I've only seen a couple here and a couple on eBay. That's neither here or there. There are far too many Jazz style basses made, already. I understand, completely, why Hamer wouldn't make another. They might think about the neck design, though. It's wonderful. The asymmetrical shape makes it so nice to play.
