are those stock pickups in that?Agreed. Only a bassist who plays lead guitar and sings all at the same should own one of these. Or a student.
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Has Gretsch been lying to us for over a decade?
- Thread starter LowEndLobster
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It's only gotten worse in the past two years haha
That video is in post #124 in this thread. The thrust of this thread has been about the G2220 not being as advertised, and diagnosing the pickups. I think the use of the word "fraud" is premature and potentially inflammatory, and any assertions of that have been a relatively small part of this thread. That said, it would be good for buyers to be able to understand why they didn't get what they thought they were buying. We can figure out what to call it later.
Sure, but stating that Fender & Gretsch have committed fraud, and publishing it (on YouTube) is libel.
Worst case scenario, Fender take @LowEndLobster to the cleaners, and he effectively pays for the them to rectify the problem he discovered.
To some people, $300 is a LOT of money. It doesn't matter how cheap or expensive it is, it should come with the parts it says it comes with.
It's devastating, after how much money I've spent on gear, and I still can't get a clean recording because of the excessive buzz.
I know my gear is prone to noise, being next to a desktop PC to record with, and living in an apartment with 20 WiFi routers in range, plus all the Bluetooth and TVs, etc, so I only buy guitars/basses with humbuckers. My other bass and guitars are definitely humbuckers, and this is the only one that has the buzz. Problem is, it wasn't making the buzz until I had it a year. I would have returned it if it was buzzing when I got it.
It is! In fact, for half of the world population, it's more than their entire month's household income.
Daily median income
I get that some don't really care much about cheaper gear, but people buying cheaper gear deserve products with truthful description too you know.
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If the statement turns out to be true, is it libel? I don't know that it's fraud from a legal standpoint or any other (not enough info yet), and would be careful about using that term regardless. But it's clear that the product does not match the description.
Eh I'm not too worried. LEL is an LLC, and I would think the optics of such an endeavor wouldn't be great.
It is not. And that's why he was very careful and deliberate about proving the truth of his accusation. Whether or not the Fender/Gretsch incorrect product description about humbucking pickups was by intent or by error it's quite clear that it is in fact untrue, and it's not material to the proper remedy at this point whether it was by intent or not. But for it to go on for this long is kind of hard to believe it was just some production error or lack of oversight.
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There are a lot of lawyers in this thread attempting to provide pro bono legal counsel to @LowEndLobster 
I'm sure the man is quite capable of taking care of himself.
I'm also sure that there are some emails and/or Slack conversations flying back and forth at FMIC right now.
My two cents, from a business perspective (not a legal perspective):
However, from the point of view of the consumer, and the reputation of Gretsch/FMIC, this doesn't matter. $300 is cheap...but many basses at that price point or less that come with humbucking pickups that are actually humbucking, from major brands like Epiphone, Dean, and FMIC themselves via Jackson and Squier, as well as store/house brands like Mitchell and Glarry. (Every P pickup is a humbucker.) "But it only costs $300" is not a valid excuse, and it's a definite black eye for FMIC.
What would I do in FMIC's case? I'm not immediately sure. These basses have been sold with single-coils for a long time, there are a lot of them out there, and any effort to fix thousands upon thousands of them would be amazingly costly, even though it's clearly the right thing to do. (Not because humbucking pickups are expensive -- they probably cost Fender a couple bucks each -- but because retrofitting them is expensive.) These are the sort of questions that keep managers up at night!
I'm sure the man is quite capable of taking care of himself.
I'm also sure that there are some emails and/or Slack conversations flying back and forth at FMIC right now.
My two cents, from a business perspective (not a legal perspective):
- Gretsch (FMIC) went to some trouble to have those pickups made: they're not, to my knowledge, shared by any other instrument.
- The pickups are clearly intended to look like Filtertrons with a solid cover, and not like any known single coil pickup. (Jazz, P90, Strat)
- Accordingly, while "fraud" is a strong word, I don't believe it's unwarranted.
However, from the point of view of the consumer, and the reputation of Gretsch/FMIC, this doesn't matter. $300 is cheap...but many basses at that price point or less that come with humbucking pickups that are actually humbucking, from major brands like Epiphone, Dean, and FMIC themselves via Jackson and Squier, as well as store/house brands like Mitchell and Glarry. (Every P pickup is a humbucker.) "But it only costs $300" is not a valid excuse, and it's a definite black eye for FMIC.
What would I do in FMIC's case? I'm not immediately sure. These basses have been sold with single-coils for a long time, there are a lot of them out there, and any effort to fix thousands upon thousands of them would be amazingly costly, even though it's clearly the right thing to do. (Not because humbucking pickups are expensive -- they probably cost Fender a couple bucks each -- but because retrofitting them is expensive.) These are the sort of questions that keep managers up at night!
that, sir, is a really good question. As near I can tell, yes. I was curious and read a couple of interviews and Kerr does not reference modifications. In fact he said his early rig (including the Jet) was not that expensive.
Im hoping lobster bought some stock in some magnetic viewing tape companies before this post. LOL.
Curious to see if we ever get a response from Gretsch.
Curious to see if we ever get a response from Gretsch.
I was honestly curious because nearly every user review I’ve read on these is positive with emphasis on how good the bass sounds.
When I was in the market for an affordable shorty, I tried several including the Gretsch .
I was not enamored with the sound or quality myself and determined that the squier mini p as well as the Ibanez mikro represented better options for less money. I wound up spending $150 more and getting a used sterling short stingray
I also feel that if we did an exhaustive investigation, our heads would probably explode at all the products out there that have misrepresented specifications.
It's going to be interesting to see what FMIC do here. It could be a PR nightmare as these sort of things never really go away, and can tarnish the brand easily for a long time. I'm not saying they were deliberately misleading, but at best it looks like incompetence or just no one caring.
I have no dog in the fight, just an interested spectator.
Did you mean that to be a joke? So of the people who did something wrong in the situation you think lobster (Who is obviously a multimillionaire) should be the one punished??
Are Filter'Trons the same size as Thunder'Trons/Thunder'Mags? I'm trying to figure out if some Filter'Trons would fit without any issues. Someone here put Thunder'Trons in and just had to enlarge the opening in the pickup rings. Would Filter'Trons be the same?
It's definitely not the product that they're advertising, but there are many reasons that could be the case that have nothing to do with intentionally deceiving, or scamming the customer.
The problem is, by publishing a statement that uses defamatory language, without any actual proof of intent to commit fraud, you're opening yourself up to being sued for libel.
Now the tables are turned, and the party who has been defamed gets to be the victim, whilst you have to prove them guilty, beyond reasonable doubt, of intending to defraud.
Fail, and you're in deep trouble.
The average person would likely see FMICs action as fraudulent even if it doesn't meet the legal criteria. So if FMIC were to go after the Lobster then imagine the backlash all over YT and other music media and forums. FMIC are clearly in the wrong, for whatever reason, and shooting the messenger will not do them any good at all.
Think Fight Club.
“Wherever I'm going, I'll be there to apply the formula. I'll keep the secret intact.
It's simple arithmetic.
It's a story problem.
If a new car built by my company leaves Chicago traveling west at 60 miles per hour, and the rear differential locks up, and the car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside, does my company initiate a recall?
You take the population of vehicles in the field (A) and multiple it by the probable rate of failure (B), then multiply the result by the average cost of an out-of-court settlement (C).
A times B times C equals X. This is what it will cost if we don't initiate a recall.
If X is greater than the cost of a recall, we recall the cars and no one gets hurt.
If X is less than the cost of a recall, then we don't recall.”
Think Fight Club.
“Wherever I'm going, I'll be there to apply the formula. I'll keep the secret intact.
It's simple arithmetic.
It's a story problem.
If a new car built by my company leaves Chicago traveling west at 60 miles per hour, and the rear differential locks up, and the car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside, does my company initiate a recall?
You take the population of vehicles in the field (A) and multiple it by the probable rate of failure (B), then multiply the result by the average cost of an out-of-court settlement (C).
A times B times C equals X. This is what it will cost if we don't initiate a recall.
If X is greater than the cost of a recall, we recall the cars and no one gets hurt.
If X is less than the cost of a recall, then we don't recall.”
I honestly think it will never come to that. the worst I could imagine would be 7MIC possibly make lobster take down his video. I doubt even that …
I also think way more people are satisfied with these basses than the extreme minority that posts here.
the best thing to do is to all politely write the company and let them know that their product specs are wrong
gretsch/7ender will do one of three things.
Ignore it and raise the price
Change the spec sheet and raise the price
Put humbucking pickups in future runs and raise the price more than the other two options
I also think way more people are satisfied with these basses than the extreme minority that posts here.
the best thing to do is to all politely write the company and let them know that their product specs are wrong
gretsch/7ender will do one of three things.
Ignore it and raise the price
Change the spec sheet and raise the price
Put humbucking pickups in future runs and raise the price more than the other two options
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Either do I, I'm just bored and hypothesising. I think even forcing him to take it down would be bad PR, but YT have some strange policies and decision making.
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