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Has Gretsch been lying to us for over a decade?
- Thread starter LowEndLobster
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- g2220 gretsch gretsch g2220
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I will freely admit that I haven’t read every post on this thread so if this has been addressed please accept my apology. Gretsch only sells one inexpensive bass (sub $1000.00 USD). They do however sell many inexpensive electric guitars. I wonder if any of their guitars are similarly misrepresented.
With the guitars you can see that they're humbuckers without having to break them open or buy magnet paper.
I think Fender / Gretsch have royally screwed up, but at this point nobody can prove that they ever had any intent to defraud.
Conversely, Lobster has publicly published media accusing Fender of committing fraud - which itself is an act of defamation, punishable by law.
It would be really, horribly ironic, if Fender's lawyers pursued Lobster over this (I'd be really surprised if they did), but they would be well within their rights.
It would suck, and seem totally unfair, but that's libel.
At this point the two things are separate, but Fender need to address the fact that the instrument is not manufactured as it is advertised to be.
Yeah, they'd be nuts to do that. I don't see it happening.
Likewise, I don't see anything happening with the Gretsch, beyond a brief explanation, and the specs on the website being corrected.
Perhaps but the “mini humbuckers” on the bass look like an actual mini humbucker. If the guitars have single coil in a humbucker case it would probably lend a lot more credence to fraudulent intent on the part of FMIC. It would probably be worth investing.
They're not lying to me...wouldn't bring one in from the cold if I found it on my front porch Christmas morning.
Quite a few apologists on behalf of corporations too.
People don’t have to think it’s a big deal, but we shouldn’t wave this off because it’s a budget bass.
All true, but...
Legal things have real definitions under the law and you can't just decide something is or isn't fraudulent, or libelous, because you do or do not believe it to be so, or to be important, etc.
I have my own thoughts on this matter but I'm not a lawyer so don't feel qualified to pontificate on what I think is correct here. Maybe someone else is and can, but unless that's the case I don't see the point in all that. And if someone else is and can, we should probably listen to that person and not the random people making guesses about what might be likely to happen in that regard.
I just checked my Ibanez AFB-200 pickups (gold in an Ivory bass) using my EMG viewing paper and each pickup shows two magnetic field "shadows" indicating to me they are dual coils.
Having dealt with the disconnect between two companies, one American, and the other Chinese in manufacturing, it doesn’t surprise me at all if any of the following happened:
1-gretsch spec’d humbucker
2-Chinese contract manufacturer originally shipped humbuckers, then switched at some point
Or
3-Gretch QC consists of a 3rd party contract manager overseas, mainly working the QC aspect as the product launches and begins to ship
I’ve had friends involved in bringing products to market that had to prototype and manu in China. Delays, miscommunications, and making he manu re-do things is the norm. This was 10 years ago, the stories I heard. I imagine it’s much better now, but depending on your contact manu, could be still a hot mess.
And look, I’m not a huge fender fan myself, but taking the stand that FMIC would do this on purpose just doesn’t fly with me. Fender is relatively smart. Smart businesses don’t just *hope* their misdeeds do not come to light.
Not an apologist, I just bet it’s a shag up and not intentional. Incompetence/error is way more prevalent than evil.
Whatever the case, we’ll never know, and what matters is how Gretsch/FMIC responds anyway.
1-gretsch spec’d humbucker
2-Chinese contract manufacturer originally shipped humbuckers, then switched at some point
Or
3-Gretch QC consists of a 3rd party contract manager overseas, mainly working the QC aspect as the product launches and begins to ship
I’ve had friends involved in bringing products to market that had to prototype and manu in China. Delays, miscommunications, and making he manu re-do things is the norm. This was 10 years ago, the stories I heard. I imagine it’s much better now, but depending on your contact manu, could be still a hot mess.
And look, I’m not a huge fender fan myself, but taking the stand that FMIC would do this on purpose just doesn’t fly with me. Fender is relatively smart. Smart businesses don’t just *hope* their misdeeds do not come to light.
Not an apologist, I just bet it’s a shag up and not intentional. Incompetence/error is way more prevalent than evil.
Whatever the case, we’ll never know, and what matters is how Gretsch/FMIC responds anyway.
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If (*IF*) Gretsch-Fender was lied to the Chinese manufacturer, that's still Fender's fault and responsibility. They are marketing the instrument. They are expected to do, and in fact must be doing, quality checks on every batch of instruments they receive. There's no way Fender wouldn't know something as basic as this about a relatively high-volume, long-running product.
And as far as Lobster being at risk of being sued for defamation, he's safe. This is advertised publicly as being a humbucker pickup, and it's obviously not a humbucker. It's a simple fact. You won't succeed in sueing someone for pointing out a simple fact, even maliciously, and Lobster isn't being malicious, in any case.
At the same time, it's baffling. These are good, affordable instruments.
Just tonight, before I read any of this, I admired several in a local Guitar Center (cool new colors), and fondled the necks on a couple (too-sharp fret ends on one, nice fret work on another). Not perfect, but only $300, and I know how to fix sharp fret ends (though I know some people don't). I'm not buying one now, but not because it's a bad deal, and not because of the humbucker lie, but because I already have enough basses.
$300? Bargain. Whether they're single coils, or whether they have a magic duck inside, it's a good deal.
But why lie about it? I dunno.
And as far as Lobster being at risk of being sued for defamation, he's safe. This is advertised publicly as being a humbucker pickup, and it's obviously not a humbucker. It's a simple fact. You won't succeed in sueing someone for pointing out a simple fact, even maliciously, and Lobster isn't being malicious, in any case.
At the same time, it's baffling. These are good, affordable instruments.
Just tonight, before I read any of this, I admired several in a local Guitar Center (cool new colors), and fondled the necks on a couple (too-sharp fret ends on one, nice fret work on another). Not perfect, but only $300, and I know how to fix sharp fret ends (though I know some people don't). I'm not buying one now, but not because it's a bad deal, and not because of the humbucker lie, but because I already have enough basses.
$300? Bargain. Whether they're single coils, or whether they have a magic duck inside, it's a good deal.
But why lie about it? I dunno.
Wow..... I was looking to get rid of this thing for other reasons. To be honest, I just don't like it. Now I'll never be able to sell it. And it sounds "ok" at best. But we're all accustomed to wanting to be able to play anything and make it sound good. This one took a delcate "touch", but you could make it sound good. I play wireless so I never knew they had a hum. Now what??? Donate it to a school or something. OR make Gretsch buy it back and THEY give it to a school.
You know what I never understood? Gretsch produces some real Filtertron bass pickups for their G5440 hollowbody. Why not make them a bit hotter and shove them into the G2220? Their bass line as is, is so low effort. Not surprised at this discovery.
I think that's a great idea. Or to some kid who wants to learn to play bass but whose parents can't afford it.
I have read through all comments and watched the videos from BTK and Lobster.
I went in just now, fired up my amp, cranked the volume (too many years of playing live without hearing protection, so my hearing isn't what it used to be), so that I could hear any hum. Began with my Precision bass, then my active jazz with stacked Noiseless humbuckers, then my Jazz V with single coils and definitely got that telltale hum with each pickup soloed. Then plugged in my G2220, which I JUST got two days ago. Whether the pickups are soloed or both on, that 60Hz hum is right there. So...add mine to the list.
Is it a little disappointing? Yes. Does it change that I love how the bass looks, plays, and sounds? No. Would I like to see Gretsch/FMIC make it right somehow? Sure. Do I really expect them to do anything more than issue an apology, blame their Chinese manufacturer for changing things without them noticing and then change the product description? Nope.
I will definitely be following what happens with this, though.
I went in just now, fired up my amp, cranked the volume (too many years of playing live without hearing protection, so my hearing isn't what it used to be), so that I could hear any hum. Began with my Precision bass, then my active jazz with stacked Noiseless humbuckers, then my Jazz V with single coils and definitely got that telltale hum with each pickup soloed. Then plugged in my G2220, which I JUST got two days ago. Whether the pickups are soloed or both on, that 60Hz hum is right there. So...add mine to the list.
Is it a little disappointing? Yes. Does it change that I love how the bass looks, plays, and sounds? No. Would I like to see Gretsch/FMIC make it right somehow? Sure. Do I really expect them to do anything more than issue an apology, blame their Chinese manufacturer for changing things without them noticing and then change the product description? Nope.
I will definitely be following what happens with this, though.
When did you purchase your G2220? Trying to figure out a timeline using examples to see if they ever even came with humbuckers (I'm starting to doubt it).
This seems higly plausible to me. Remember when Ernie Ball released the Cutlass and Caprice basses? Their trade announcements said they were the first passive basses the company ever released by the company.
This statement was completely incorrect as the company introduced the USA S.U.B. bass in 2003 (about 10 years prior to the release of the Caprice and Cutlass) which came standard as passive. Active version was $50 more.
The company never corrected their statement.
Does anyone know if any FMIC employees are here on TB?
Also, a great way to elicit a response from them is to post on social media, i.e. twitter and IG.
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