buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
No necessarily, but that's my point. Knowing it really is a Fender gives it a value, subject to condition.
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Headstock Decal Etiquette
- Thread starter DigitalMan
- Start date
No necessarily, but that's my point. Knowing it really is a Fender gives it a value, subject to condition.
This is true, but my main point was that by buying these fake decals you are allowing these people to stay in business and therefore enabling those who want to sell fake Fenders by selling them authentic looking logos.
Looks as if the all the presuming going on was by you and not the post, as my post neither said nor meant anything about "people will pay big for it somewhere down the line based on that wordmark". The logo should mean "genuine", which does not necessarily mean "valuable".
If you don't consider putting a decal on a fake a "dupe" in itself, then perhaps you should consult a dictionary.
Also, no one is counterfeiting $350 Fenders.
Despite what you "think", eventually someone is likely to be ripped off, intentionally or not.
Most people know these decals have been around for a long time as well as aftermarket necks so......
If I was buying a $2000 bass, I would make sure I knew what I was buying and would be going by more than a sticker on the headstock.
At what point is it going to require special clearance to get a fender sticker? Everyone is saying as long as he takes it off... What's stopping the person who buys it from putting another sticker on.
It's not your responsibility to ensure that your work is not exploited at any point in time. If you decide you want to make it your responsibility then you need to carve "not a fender" on it.
As for representing it as a fender... I think putting wormath on the feedstock might be more appropriate, but then your implying the whole thing is a wormath, so I don't know...
I think it's reasonable to consider it a fender as long as 51% or more of it is fender. If the body and all its components are fender with a different neck: fender. Neck and components are fender with a different body: fender. Neck and body are wormath: I'd say it's a custom bass with fender components
It's not your responsibility to ensure that your work is not exploited at any point in time. If you decide you want to make it your responsibility then you need to carve "not a fender" on it.
As for representing it as a fender... I think putting wormath on the feedstock might be more appropriate, but then your implying the whole thing is a wormath, so I don't know...
I think it's reasonable to consider it a fender as long as 51% or more of it is fender. If the body and all its components are fender with a different neck: fender. Neck and components are fender with a different body: fender. Neck and body are wormath: I'd say it's a custom bass with fender components
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Point is, we don't know. Again, how many of those threads are there here, and how indignant do some here get When they see a forgery?
Yeah, and stripes make cars go faster, too!
Don't forget that stripes also make guitars and basses play faster...
Found on the interwebs...
Vast website. Many different users, all with differing opinions.
I'm pretty sure we CAN have it both ways.
In fact, I'm pretty sure we DO.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes ... and fake headstock decals.
-- Ben Franklin
-- Ben Franklin
Ok, obscure humor reference. I'm thinking of doing a mock fender decal using "Gefender" as the logo, and "Jazz-ish Bass" as the text.
If you're in the category of people who know the difference between a MIM Fender and something else, you're not likely to get duped by a Fender logo on a random headstock.
If you're NOT in that category, you're just as likely to type "Fender bass" into a google search, see a custom shop Precision with a tag of several thousand dollars, and assume the legit Made In China Fender you're looking at in the junk store is in that realm. Or even an MIM. At that point, whose fault is it that the person trying to evaluate it got it wrong? Fender's? For duping people? There are legions of die-hard MIA Fender fanatics who will tell you all day long that Chinese Fenders are not "real Fenders". On the used market, you're not going to get duped into paying any more for a "fake" Fender than you will a Chinese Fender. What's the difference, for the sake of this argument?
Jacob
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
If that were so, we wouldn't have the threads discussing potentially counterfeit Fenders on almost a daily basis. If you don't believe that counterfeits are a real problem, you have your head in the sand.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I buy a Fender bass.
I paint the headstock to match the body.
I will put a Fender decal on it.
I paint the headstock to match the body.
I will put a Fender decal on it.
In a similar vein, it's also common for someone to take a real Fender and misrepresent it as being something above its pedigree. I'd say even more common than counterfeiting from the discussions I've seen. (This post was written before I saw the previous three)
Would you agree there is a spectrum upon which criminals and counterfeiters lie on one portion, but parts bass builders with aesthetics in mind might lie upon another?
Would you agree there is a spectrum upon which criminals and counterfeiters lie on one portion, but parts bass builders with aesthetics in mind might lie upon another?
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
No, for several reason:
1 if it is not a Fender, why do you want it to say Fender?
2 Remember the case in New Jersey last year where they found several millions of dollars worth of counterfeits? Every time you condone this, you make it easier to happen again. Every time you buy an unauthorized Fender sticker, you make it more likely to happen.
3 Even if you don't intend to sell it, unless you intend to take it with you, eventually it WILL be sold.
This pretty much is what I thought I remembered, and probably part of the reason Fender licensed the headstock shape (and not just the pocket dimensions) to Warmoth, Allparts and Mighty Mite in the first place.
I have also heard that it's (allegedly) an infringement of some sort to put anything but a Fender decal on a licensed headstock unless the shape is altered before application. I don't know if that's true, but it makes sense IMO that they wouldn't want their trademarked shape to be adorned with someone else's name or design. Note that none of Fender's licensed manufacturers sell waterslide decals of their own logo... not Allparts, not Mighty Mite, not even Warmoth- Warmoth sells thick vinyl stickers instead of waterslide decals. I bet there's a reason for this, even if none of the companies will say so.
This isn't anything that doesn't happen all the time (with no malicious intent from anyone) in, say, the auto industry... I wreck my car, I get a new hood and quarter panels and maybe lenses, a bumper. How much of it is from the company that made my car? Dunno. Is a hood as much a part of the function of a car as the neck is to a bass? No. But no matter how much of my car was rebuilt with aftermarket parts, I would want the hood ornament in place. This whole molehill has been trying to become a mountain because of intent and possible intent- crooks are passing off licensed Fender necks as Fender-made necks because gullible and inexperienced shoppers are willing to pay more for necks with the Fender logo.
Yep. I've bought several black market decals, but only for actual Fender necks. I've decaled P-Bass necks with J decals because the neck was going on a J-bass, I've decaled necks with the "correct period" logo to match the body it was intended for. I've never used a Fender decal with "made in USA" on an MIJ or MIM neck and I've never used a Fender decal on an Allparts* neck because I didn't have a source when I was building with those (not a pro, just a hobbyist hoarder and guy who just likes to tinker in general), but I wouldn't hesitate to decal an Allparts neck today.
*IMO, Allparts is really the one company we should be talking about here, because they're the only licensed company that offers vintage Fender "appointments" --heel truss adjustment, fingerboard that ends before the headstock curves up away from the nut toward the E tuner, and the correct size tuner holes-- so they're the only ones AFAIK whose neck you could use anyhow to restore or complete a convincing reproduction of most Fender basses built up to the mid-70s. Warmoth fingerboards do get just a bit into the curve toward the e tuner, and they are now drilled for BML tuner-size (but not for the holes where the pegs sit) rather than the Kluson size.
All I'd ask of anyone is to disclose that the neck is aftermarket. I'd do the same if I were to sell anything. Beyond that, the seller has no responsibility for what happens to the bass after it reaches the buyer, and potential buyers need to educate themselves.
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