Help me understand this mentality

[Stumbo]

Where in the organization’s rule book does it state a mentor can unilaterally resign from being a mentor because a student didn’t meet mentor expectations?

Write the kid a letter setting forth his positive attributes. If you want to complain about his mentality, attach a copy of this thread so at least the reader will understand what the kid had to deal with.

Keep in mind it’s their world now. You had your chance.

Uhhhh...can't mentor a ghost.

 

[PauFerro]

Uhhhh...can't mentor a ghost.

Exactly, but you can hold a ghost accountable the next time they need something and come back for more out of the relationship. And you can mitigate the effects of their ghosting on others.

For me it's as much about the impact on the people around you and left behind, as it is about dealing with the ghost. If the ghost disappears, there's not much you can do other than put your house in order without them.

This relates to a thread going on about a band that a drummer who ghosted -- the band folded as a result. It also relates to non-contributors and the impact they have on committed members. It's a challenge to keep motivation high when others perceive the situation to have been dominated by people who don't care.

 

[thetragichero]

NO!!!! Obstacles and hindrances HELP humans grow! That's how it works! When did this idiotic society get this backwards? Christ...

that sounds great on a macro scale (like entire species adapting to survive in their environment) but on a micro scale it fails to hold water

quick example: if you are teaching your child to ride a (two wheel) bicycle, would you push them down after you let go because (s)he'll have to learn sometime, or do you make every possible effort to aid and encourage their success, standing by to comfort them through any failures?

i get that baby boomers (at least in the us) were raised by a bunch of cold, emotionally unavailable, abusive parents. but why pass that on? if you've got issues stemming from that upbringing (which is pretty much everyone i meet between the ages of 50 and 70), why not break that cycle of abuse? why not try to decrease the amount of suffering in the world instead of continuing to perpetuate it?

 

[two fingers]

Fine, I'll take the bait. Everyone, get your popcorn ready while the olds rant about kidz these dayz:

It's called "ghosting" and it seems to be SOP for younger folks who don't know how to deal with conflict since they've been raised online, where you can just log off and ignore what ever poop-storm you started.

This.

The digital age has allowed people to deflect with ninja skills. And it happens EARLY.

My older daughter is 9. When I pick her up from her after school program, She'll discuss with me drama between her peer group. These things actually happened in the real world. And, ultimately, some girl "sucks". Some girl is mean and bossy and turns the rest of the girls against a weaker girl.

Forward to the weekend (the ONLY time my girls are allowed screens of any kind at home....no iPods, computers or TV during weekdays unless part of a homework assignment). That same peer group will be in a group text. Another rule is that I'm allowed to look over her shoulder whenever I want when she's texting. I'll notice that the girls who "sucks" is tucking it up with everyone else who left school thinking she "sucks". Via text, nothing ever happened. The controversy from earlier simply disappeared. The "arms length" of text allows them to ignore the issue.

Get back to the real world and the weaker ones will passive-aggressively pretend everything is OK all the while pissing and moaning about it behind her back.

Yeah. We're training her to stick up for herself.... in person.

 

[Vooter]

i get that baby boomers (at least in the us) were raised by a bunch of cold, emotionally unavailable, abusive parents. but why pass that on? if you've got issues stemming from that upbringing (which is pretty much everyone i meet between the ages of 50 and 70), why not break that cycle of abuse? why not try to decrease the amount of suffering in the world instead of continuing to perpetuate it?

And you got this information about the entire baby-boomer generation from where? LOL... I was actually raised by two GREAT, loving people who had the brains to tell us NO more often than not, taught us manners (and watched us like hawks to make sure we used them), made us work from the moment we were legally able to, made us fight our own battles, and expected us to go out into the world on our own as soon as we were out of college. And they never laid a hand on us, either. There was no "abuse"--there was just GOOD PARENTING. Sorry if you and others missed out...

 

[catcauphonic]

My word is one of the few things that I have in this world that's valuable and reliable because when I give it to people they know they could count on it. I understand that poop happens in life that make things not go according to plan, but leaving people hanging who were counting on me for the smallest thing is not my style. Extreme mental illness aside, I know what depression and anxiety are like, and ghosting feeds into the cycle of both because despite the arguments for it as has been presented in this thread, we all know that it's not doing anybody any favors, ghoster included

 

[Hambone70]

that sounds great on a macro scale (like entire species adapting to survive in their environment) but on a micro scale it fails to hold water

quick example: if you are teaching your child to ride a (two wheel) bicycle, would you push them down after you let go because (s)he'll have to learn sometime, or do you make every possible effort to aid and encourage their success, standing by to comfort them through any failures?

i get that baby boomers (at least in the us) were raised by a bunch of cold, emotionally unavailable, abusive parents. but why pass that on? if you've got issues stemming from that upbringing (which is pretty much everyone i meet between the ages of 50 and 70), why not break that cycle of abuse? why not try to decrease the amount of suffering in the world instead of continuing to perpetuate it?

I, too, would like to see data connecting millennial snowflake behavior to Baby Boomer parenting.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Millenials are the kids of generation X, not baby boomers.
Everyone needs to stop giving any sense to the generation naming crap.

 

[thetragichero]

I, too, would like to see data connecting millennial snowflake behavior to Baby Boomer parenting.

so besides the not reading too good (it happens; I ain't mad at ya), can we discuss the irony of your usage of the word "snowflake?"

 

[catcauphonic]

Overall, i just have a bitterness about where we have put our priorities in the whole system of professionalism. All the way from high school, to college, to ones career. I should probably note i am talking about the environment in the US particularly. College is the most overpriced, inefficient education mechanism i can think of. I also don't think highly of how companies reinforce that by requiring degrees from said colleges. Then there's the whole job screening process which is rife with non-genuine interactions and straight up lies to get a job. And just about everyone does it. I truly think this pressure to meet up with the group think is making alot of people miserable. I respect those who find another way and can then live on their own terms instead of someone else's. I am trying to find what that looks like for myself, because i got too deep in the normal way of doing things to finally realize that all i am doing is setting my life up to be hard work and stress, with little meaning, to only have financial stability in return but not much else. Not much free time, that's for sure.

As for the concept of ghosting, i said "generally" because there are some situations where i would feel badly from being ghosted. But those aren't the more common and casual situations it tends to happen. It's those more common situations that don't bug me...a bandmate not answering my calls, a co-worker not showing up for work, a plumber not showing up to fix my pipes. I am also pretty forgiving if in those situations the person did end up coming back into my life to redeem themselves.

But i know my way of thinking is not the norm. I am fairly anti-establishment at this point in my life and have a decent amount of resentment against our government, corporations, education system, and the shear waste of modern society. These things are holding people down quite often instead of lifting people up.

I agree with a good portion of what you say about 'the system', but any other system where people aren't expected to do what they say they're going to go is not going to be much better. Integrity (follow thru) is everything, otherwise your words are just more air/ear pollution.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Society seems to project that it is OK to do that now.

I'm baffled, because I've seen no particular indication that it's the case, or not any more than twenty years ago. It feels a bit like Virgil complaining no one respects their elders any more

 

[ogreboy88]

can we discuss the irony of your usage of the word "snowflake?"

If no one else takes you up on this, I would be super excited to hear about it.

Please do tell!

 

[Hambone70]

so besides the not reading too good (it happens; I ain't mad at ya), can we discuss the irony of your usage of the word "snowflake?"

Sure! I fail to see the irony. Apart from not reading good, apparently I ain't too bright, either...

 

[thetragichero]

modern colloquial usage of the term "snowflake" can be traced to "fight club," a novel about the fragile male ego. the irony is that the term is often used (along with mocking potentially "triggered" persons) by folks who are so insecure that they seem to be offended by anything non-male non-white non-heterosexual non-nationalist non-christian (which is like 90% of the planet)

for the record, I am a straight white American Christian male.

 

[Hambone70]

modern colloquial usage of the term "snowflake" can be traced to "fight club," a novel about the fragile male ego. the irony is that the term is often used (along with mocking potentially "triggered" persons) by folks who are so insecure that they seem to be offended by anything non-male non-white non-heterosexual non-nationalist non-christian (which is like 90% of the planet)

for the record, I am a straight white American Christian male.

“Term is often used?” Is this your opinion, or substantiated fact?

 

[MordBass]

Cool, maybe we can zero in on this difference a little. My impression is that, from OP's perspective, ghoster asking for a letter of reference with no explanation of ghosting IS waltzing back into a professional relationship, expecting it to be unchanged by the ghosting.

Is it what's being asked for that makes the difference for you? Would it feel awkward for you now to ask your employer at the job you walked out of for a letter of reference? Would you be surprised if they were unwilling to write such a letter based on your having walked out?

I feel you on the comparison but we can make it far more direct... ghoster waltzing back in for a reference would be like me waltzing band in for a reference.... it would not be like me waltzing back in and acting like I still work there. THAT would have been a good example if the op said that after 6 months of ghosting, the dude just resumed his duties as if nothing had happened.
Would I be surprised??? No. However I'm assuming that I have a bit more experience than the ghoster in question. Also, with my situation we're talking about a job, vs the OP talking about a school situation. Which yea, it is different because despite what many professors would like to believe.. they are an employee and the students are clients.

 

[MordBass]

Overall, i just have a bitterness about where we have put our priorities in the whole system of professionalism. All the way from high school, to college, to ones career. I should probably note i am talking about the environment in the US particularly. College is the most overpriced, inefficient education mechanism i can think of. I also don't think highly of how companies reinforce that by requiring degrees from said colleges. Then there's the whole job screening process which is rife with non-genuine interactions and straight up lies to get a job. And just about everyone does it. I truly think this pressure to meet up with the group think is making alot of people miserable. I respect those who find another way and can then live on their own terms instead of someone else's. I am trying to find what that looks like for myself, because i got too deep in the normal way of doing things to finally realize that all i am doing is setting my life up to be hard work and stress, with little meaning, to only have financial stability in return but not much else. Not much free time, that's for sure.

As for the concept of ghosting, i said "generally" because there are some situations where i would feel badly from being ghosted. But those aren't the more common and casual situations it tends to happen. It's those more common situations that don't bug me...a bandmate not answering my calls, a co-worker not showing up for work, a plumber not showing up to fix my pipes. I am also pretty forgiving if in those situations the person did end up coming back into my life to redeem themselves.

But i know my way of thinking is not the norm. I am fairly anti-establishment at this point in my life and have a decent amount of resentment against our government, corporations, education system, and the shear waste of modern society. These things are holding people down quite often instead of lifting people up.

I applaud your response and couldn't agree more.
There is so much wrong with the education system on both the moral and practical sides. It really paints a different picture once you realize the reality of it.
Students look to loans for an education just like people with bad financial skills look to the bestbuy card as a way to get a new tv without having the money. And of course... the school is happy to facilitate it. But then things get worse when you realize that the graduation rate is gigantic for those that continue attending. Because it wouldnt be good business to tell half your customers that they didnt make the cut despite having paid.
The whole thing reminds me of when I was at the MSF(motorcycle) course and they failed a lady because she couldn't control her bike at all. She somehow got a 250cc Buell to stand straight up and go flying out from under her, nearly hitting another rider. What was her response? "How dare you kick me out! I paid to be here and I want my license!" She didnt understand that the "degree" is still earned even though your attendance was paid.
So what is it saying about our schools that they graduate almost everybody that signs up? The math would say that it means that their degree isnt worth what theyre claiming it is.
If I were an employer... show me a school with an 80% failure rate and I'll hire every graduate you can send me.

But thats not the reality, is it? And like you pointed out, the businesses play along by requiring these degrees since they also got their degrees. So even if you already know what youre doing... you still cant get in the door. It just props up the entire phony system. All the way back to high school when we were told that you'll never be anything without a degree.

So yea, I 100% agree with you that the whole system needs to be looked at. Because Ive known many brilliant people without degrees and I've known a ton of idiots that somehow got a degree despite being barely qualified to flip a burger. Oh yea... its because they paid.. and then showed up.

 

[thetragichero]

“Term is often used?” Is this your opinion, or substantiated fact?

it is a statistically significant correlation, as they would say

 

[RadioactiveGuy4]

Exactly, but you can hold a ghost accountable the next time they need something and come back for more out of the relationship. And you can mitigate the effects of their ghosting on others.

For me it's as much about the impact on the people around you and left behind, as it is about dealing with the ghost. If the ghost disappears, there's not much you can do other than put your house in order without them.

This relates to a thread going on about a band that a drummer who ghosted -- the band folded as a result. It also relates to non-contributors and the impact they have on committed members. It's a challenge to keep motivation high when others perceive the situation to have been dominated by people who don't care.

I guess I would have taken the route of writing the letter and just being honest about what the student did. Essentially he looked promising for reasons X,Y and Z but in the end he proved unreliable and only responded to our repeated attempts to contact him by asking for this reference and gave no reason for his lack of communication or resignation.

Its honest and accurate and now it gives the folks looking for the reference a warning. If they chose to ignore the warning then that is on them.

Refusing to give a reference just means that the student will find someone else to paint him in a more favorable light.

 

[John j]

modern colloquial usage of the term "snowflake" can be traced to "fight club," a novel about the fragile male ego. the irony is that the term is often used (along with mocking potentially "triggered" persons) by folks who are so insecure that they seem to be offended by anything non-male non-white non-heterosexual non-nationalist non-christian (which is like 90% of the planet)

for the record, I am a straight white American Christian male.

Actually, it goes back further than that.
The movie Glory. One black soldier called another a snowflake (after being reprimanded) to insinuate he had previously viewed himself as 'special'.