i hate sound guys

[ga_edwards]

Also, what are you talking about Simon Cowell? I haven't heard any news across the water.

Basically, Simon Cowell's various talent shows have been timed for the past 5 or so years to monopolise on the lucrative UK Christmas No. 1 slot. And they've always got it too. No one else stands a chance of getting to No 1 at Christmas anymore as the label he's part of pretty much holds back other big artists so they don't affect sales of his winners single, and because of the huge marketing campaign.

However, this year, technology has finally taken hold in the shape of downloads which for a few years have counted toward the sales chart (which means a song not on general release can be bought and pushed into the charts) and social networking, namely Facebook.

Someone came up with the idea of a facebook campaign to back another tune to beat the X-factor winners song. And boy is it a good one:

'Killing In The Name Of' by Rage Against The Machine!

And yep, it won the battle, by quite a lot, and Simon Cowell isn't too happy about it!

Sure it's not a festive tune, and sure it is angry and has bad language. But it's not about that. It's a statement that as a nation we aren't happy with the way he and other label execs have twisted and moulded the once proud British Music Industry into nothing more than money grabbing manufactured karaoke pop rot, stifled of all creativity and identity.

 

[fokof]

My old bands sound guy was brilliant; he new the songs very well, EQ'd everyone for every song,

It's so nice to work with a digital board and have a couple of days of pre-production to be able to do that !

Because changing EQ for all instruments , on all songs , on an analogic board is impossible for a single human being.

 

[engedi1]

Basically, Simon Cowell's various talent shows have been timed for the past 5 or so years to monopolise on the lucrative UK Christmas No. 1 slot. And they've always got it too. No one else stands a chance of getting to No 1 at Christmas anymore as the label he's part of pretty much holds back other big artists so they don't affect sales of his winners single, and because of the huge marketing campaign.

However, this year, technology has finally taken hold in the shape of downloads which for a few years have counted toward the sales chart (which means a song not on general release can be bought and pushed into the charts) and social networking, namely Facebook.

Someone came up with the idea of a facebook campaign to back another tune to beat the X-factor winners song. And boy is it a good one:

'Killing In The Name Of' by Rage Against The Machine!

And yep, it won the battle, by quite a lot, and Simon Cowell isn't too happy about it!

Sure it's not a festive tune, and sure it is angry and has bad language. But it's not about that. It's a statement that as a nation we aren't happy with the way he and other label execs have twisted and moulded the once proud British Music Industry into nothing more than money grabbing manufactured karaoke pop rot, stifled of all creativity and identity.

Great post! Very funny that a Rage song "killed" the Cowell pop stuff. Sorry to hear about the state of the British music scene. Still, England has produced Radiohead, one of my favorite bands of all time. Of course England also managed to produce the spice girls...

Not to get to way OT, but I often wonder about the future of the music biz, as amazing home recording tech and itunes is slowly chipping away at the market share of major labels. What does a major offer anymore, except marketing power, than an indy, or even a talented producer working in his basement studio cannot? All Cowell and his nefarious ilk have done, is find a way to virtually guarantee sales without having to bother with artist development.
Terrible shame really.

 

[Rob Lewis]

Basically, Simon Cowell's various talent shows have been timed for the past 5 or so years to monopolise on the lucrative UK Christmas No. 1 slot. And they've always got it too. No one else stands a chance of getting to No 1 at Christmas anymore as the label he's part of pretty much holds back other big artists so they don't affect sales of his winners single, and because of the huge marketing campaign.

However, this year, technology has finally taken hold in the shape of downloads which for a few years have counted toward the sales chart (which means a song not on general release can be bought and pushed into the charts) and social networking, namely Facebook.

Someone came up with the idea of a facebook campaign to back another tune to beat the X-factor winners song. And boy is it a good one:

'Killing In The Name Of' by Rage Against The Machine!

And yep, it won the battle, by quite a lot, and Simon Cowell isn't too happy about it!

Sure it's not a festive tune, and sure it is angry and has bad language. But it's not about that. It's a statement that as a nation we aren't happy with the way he and other label execs have twisted and moulded the once proud British Music Industry into nothing more than money grabbing manufactured karaoke pop rot, stifled of all creativity and identity.

The blame for X-factor strictly get-me-out-of-here wifeswap on ice rests squarely on the shoulders of the great British public. But then again, we're a nation of Sun readers...and I fear that there's no going back.

 

[JimmyM]

Great post! Very funny that a Rage song "killed" the Cowell pop stuff. Sorry to hear about the state of the British music scene. Still, England has produced Radiohead, one of my favorite bands of all time. Of course England also managed to produce the spice girls...

Not to get to way OT, but I often wonder about the future of the music biz, as amazing home recording tech and itunes is slowly chipping away at the market share of major labels. What does a major offer anymore, except marketing power, than an indy, or even a talented producer working in his basement studio cannot? All Cowell and his nefarious ilk have done, is find a way to virtually guarantee sales without having to bother with artist development.
Terrible shame really.

he hasn't quite been able to do that here. sure, a handful of idol contestants have had hits, but way more have stiffed and headed back to obscurity. guess he'll just have to be content with that hundred million he makes a year.

 

[Anthbass]

It should be worth saying though that it pays to be nice to good soundman though. If you're courteous, they'll be more open to suggestions and more likely to take care with your sound.
It also pays to thank them at the end of the night. Hopefully they'll remember you if you ever work with them again. Hey, even if the sound wasn't perfect, it still doens't hurt to be nice and thank them.

And whilst you're at it, thank the venue too if it's appropriate to do so. Again, the chance of being asked back increases if you're polite.

Manners cost nothing!

I completely agree. I'm not a professional musician who has played 1000 shows but I still appreciate being able to hear myself when on stage. Common courtesy seems like such a basic necessity when relating to people with (presumably) different priorities, i.e., soundpeople and musicians. Case in point: my band was playing, for the first time, at a large-ish club in my city. It was exceedingly dark in the place, and the soundman walked by my bass head and accidently knocked it over, onto one of his feet. Said amplifier was in a road case and weighs about 50 pounds, so that must have hurt. My immediate reaction was anger; who wants their gear hitting the floor? Fortunately, my brain caught up quickly and I spoke with the soundman to commiserate about his (likely) throbbing foot. After the show, I thanked him for his efforts and said I hoped we'd play the venue again. We have since been back three times in the past year and he can't help enough for anyone in the band. Simple courtesy goes a long way, in sound relations or anywhere else, I'm convinced.

 

[JohnMCA72]

...
Does this mean if I think your tone sucks @$$ and you are ruining my mix I can come smash your bass on the floor?
...

If you're going to ruin a good bass, please smash it on the a______'s head where it might do some good!

 

[ga_edwards]

he hasn't quite been able to do that here. sure, a handful of idol contestants have had hits, but way more have stiffed and headed back to obscurity. guess he'll just have to be content with that hundred million he makes a year.

But it would seem the same thing is starting to happen if they go into obscurity after making the label money. The winner is supposed to be the 'next big thing', but is moulded then dropped as soon as they fail to sell albums. A label that really cared about music, nurtured the artist they had belief in wouldn't do that. I mean, a band like Queen who didn't 'make it' till their third or fourth album would have been dropped in today's world after the dismal sales of the first album.

You obviously must still have the diversity to compete with such programmes, Sadly in the UK, it's nearly all but taken over. The eager British seem to lap up anything 'reality' or celebrity based, and it's constantly piped through the media to the point of saturation. I really can't fathom why people enjoy it.


PS. I realise I've taken this thread way OT. But seeing as the OP hasn't made an appearance since his initial post, so what!

 

[engedi1]

But it would seem the same thing is starting to happen if they go into obscurity after making the label money. The winner is supposed to be the 'next big thing', but is moulded then dropped as soon as they fail to sell albums. A label that really cared about music, nurtured the artist they had belief in wouldn't do that. I mean, a band like Queen who didn't 'make it' till their third or fourth album would have been dropped in today's world after the dismal sales of the first album.

You obviously must still have the diversity to compete with such programmes, Sadly in the UK, it's nearly all but taken over. The eager British seem to lap up anything 'reality' or celebrity based, and it's constantly piped through the media to the point of saturation. I really can't fathom why people enjoy it.


PS. I realise I've taken this thread way OT. But seeing as the OP hasn't made an appearance since his initial post, so what!

I also can't fathom the love for reality stuff-that is so 2003 for me. Maybe the sheer size and maybe the fact that we have so many different tv stations vs the limited number of BBC stations limits the cultural impact of such schizz. I am truly shocked to learn this about the UK. I love the UK and have been many times, but not for about 10 years. I didn't realize Cowell was taking over!

In my mind at least, the UK is the source of great indy music. I would be sad to learn this is no longer the case.

 

[PilbaraBass]

Isn't this a reflection of today, anyway. I mean, everyone want's everything now and PERFECT NOW! Noone has patience, especially business. I wonder why the global economy went "ka-boom"...perhaps it had a little to do with investors dictation corporate decisions. "Oh we must do this so that we look good to the shareholders". Bring back private enterprise, already. I've had a gut full!

 

[bucephylus]

This thread is probably pretty worn out, but I'll put in my 2c anyhow.

The thing I don't get about sound guys, and a lot of musicians for that matter, is that they honestly "hear" the music with the guitars driving the rhythm, and the pulse on the 1 and 3. This seems to be particularly the case with the rock circuit. Never mind the fact that if you listen to the tunes on the juke between sets, the bass is out front in the recording mix with the pulse on the back beat. No, they want to mike the heck out of the kick drum on 1 and 3, pump the guitars to 11 and tell the bass to turn down if they can hear it. I'm sure they all clap on the 1 and 3 in church. It happens too often, and I am personally running out of patience with it.

Happened to me at my last gig - "you're too loud," and I just turned the bass off on stage. I figured what the heck, the sound guy had the DI feed, and if he wanted the bass in the mix, he could put it in there. The whole band nearly had a fit because obviously the air goes out of the tires pretty quickly with no bass. The drummer, who runs the group, basically fired the sound guy at the end of the night.

Now, we've got a new guy, but already he is riding me at rehearsal that I am too loud with my GB 6 into a Schro 15L and the two guitars wailing with their half stacks. I can already see the problem developing again.

Some people just don't get it, and a lot of sound guys are in that category, IME. Not all, but a lot. A lot of musicians too. Only solution I can see is to try to play with players who at least know how the mix should sound and then stand your ground with the ignorant sound guys when your run into them. They're out there.

 

[tobie]

Happened to me at my last gig - "you're too loud," and I just turned the bass off on stage. I figured what the heck, the sound guy had the DI feed, and if he wanted the bass in the mix, he could put it in there. The whole band nearly had a fit<clip>

That's exactly my experience. The band can't hear the sound coming from the PA (we're behind the main speakers) but they do want to hear the bass. By the time they can hear it, it's 'too loud' according to the soundman. I guess it will help if the secondary keyboardist stop playing bass notes with her left hand (causing resonant bass effects when merged with my sound)...

 

[TimmyP]

Pain in the ass as it is, quite often something on stage makes a lot more racket in the room than it does on stage. A case in point is a church at which I was hired to mix some rehearsals. The music director kept telling me to turn this up and that up in the various monitor mixes (both floor and flown) until, with the PA off, it damn near everything was too loud in the house to be able to add any PA in order to try to get some intelligibility, and maybe even a proper mix - to have done so would have made for an intolerably loud mix. What the stage was putting into the house was shite! I went up onto the stage so see what kind of a mess they had up there, and - it sounded fantastic.

 

[JimmyM]

my band has that problem sometimes. we're all intense monitor freaks. as quiet with the amps we are, we're the exact opposite when it comes to monitors. guess we picked that up from bowzer.

 

[walterw]

that's why god created IEMs.

The thing I don't get about sound guys, and a lot of musicians for that matter, is that they honestly "hear" the music with the guitars driving the rhythm, and the pulse on the 1 and 3...I'm sure they all clap on the 1 and 3 in church. It happens too often, and I am personally running out of patience with it.

slightly OT, but the bass player in my band teaches middle school (history, oddly enough, even though he's a berklee grad), and in the summer at the end of every year he puts together a school concert with our band in their auditorium. the students see him rocking on the bass and singing for the first time, music students get up and play, it's a hoot and the kids go crazy for it.

the coolest part is, on every "clap along" part of any song, he's somehow trained all these white suburban kids to clap on the 2 and 4 (he reminds them over the mic), and they nail it with gusto!

 

[engedi1]

I guess it will help if the secondary keyboardist stop playing bass notes with her left hand (causing resonant bass effects when merged with my sound)...

The bane of my existence....

 

[MIJ-VI]

Here's what you do if you find yourself in the situation of having to plug your bass directly into the board because the soundguy refuses to let you go through your amp.

Turn the volume down on your bass to about 40% at soundcheck. Play the gig with your on-bass volume still turned down. The soundguy will have your house level adjusted to be as loud as normal at the mains.


Then, right before you start your closing song, crank up your bass volume to 100%.




Watch the fun begin.

Wouldn't the fun end the next time one worked with the same soundman?

 

[agedhorse]

Wouldn't the fun end the next time one worked with the same soundman?

Actually, the fun would end about 2 bars into the first song.

(Real) sound guys are mixing for the audience, fitting the bass into the mix. That's where it will end up regardless of what happens on stage, and games like that tend to sabatoge the entire band. So much for the bass player being a team player in a scenario like this eh?

THe bands I hate mixing the most are the bands where everybody in the band id a sound expert and they all want more of themselves in the mix. Recipee for failure from the start.

 

[greenboy]

Yeah, or one could just pull the b-ass-hat totally out of the board mix immediately, and cite "technical difficulties" caused by the bass rig, afterwards. Unless the gig was especially high profile nobody would blink. And the chances of any bassists pulling such a stunt in a high profile gig are exceedingly small anyway. Only chumps tend to think "tricks" like that are gonna wash.

 

[bucephylus]

Putting on a show is a Team effort. That means everyone needs to be on the same page and support each other to achieve the overall sound objective. Doesn't matter if it is the bass player or sound guy; in either case, bringing your own interpretation of the sound to the situation irrespective of the objective mix doesn't work.

But, understanding the mix is not very different from studying bass lines, particularly for a cover band. It requires an awareness of what was done and how it was done, even if you are going to make changes.

So, the sound person has a truly critical position, not unlike the conductor in an orchestra. They are responsible for the product delivered to the audience.

It is my experience, at least here in Phoenix, that a lot of the sound people mixing for rock bands in the clubs have a sonic image of a mix that is a long ways from the recorded product. One can try to have constructive discussions with them, but there are also a lot of egos at play.

Not sure who is a "chump" here. I think we're all trying to do our best. Unaware sound guys are out there, encountered not infrequently, and if there are better ways to deal with them, I'm all ears. Happy Holidays all.