If i had $8499...

[WoodyG3]

Wow ,whats wrong with an 8500 dollar car. My truck cost 5000 grand and runs and drives just fine. Don't need a status symbol to get from A to B

You paid 5 million for a truck?

Personal preference fuels the justification to purchase any product. So, nobody should be ridiculed or belittled for what they want to spend their own money on.

Nick, stop making sense. That's really frowned upon on the Internet.

Musicians are basically the only people on the planet who cling to the idea that gear doesn't matter. Put me on a beat up Huffy mountain bike and I will NEVER be as fast as I am on this bike. I'd be willing to bet money that I could even beat a pro if I had my bike and they had a Huffy mountain bike.

Certain basses and guitars are designed and built to play better. Musicians can deny that this is true all they want.

Spade, your bike is great. That looks like a great time trial machine.

Oh, yeah, about Fodera and all that. Nice stuff costs a lot of money sometimes. Get over it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

These are barber shop arguments that differ only in where they take place. At the end of the game, the only relevant question is 'Can you play?' –maybe even, 'Do you play?'– not 'What bass do you own?'. That's almost all about consumerism, which has little to do with music making. If you didn't build the damned bass, what's your stake in defending its relative merits? I want to hear your musicality, not ogle your bass. Expensive bass: nice. Big whoop. After the nth go-round of this debate, it's just plain silly. How well you appreciate an object should not be a function of its purchase price. Just play. That where it's at.

No offense, Edward, here are some observations. It's a conversation. A pretty harmless one IMO. And while it may come down to the simple either/or that you stated about playing, that does not have to be the case for everyone else. Right?


People have opinions about this stuff and they're discussing them. That's entirely relevant "for them". And you've participated in this conversation multiple times while now calling it silly. Seems like there's a disconnect there. Ya think?


I love playing bass. I've put the time in and it's paid off fairly well. I also like basses and talking about them with other bassists and bass players. I don't think conversation should stop at playing... makes no sense to me when I can also discuss what I use to accomplish that and other things related to my chosen main instrument.


If someone want to do the amateur psychiatry thing on why people own or like what they like, I have no problem with that. It's more entertaining than debating A# vs. Bb. And I don't have a problem with what you're saying, like I said, these are some things it brought to mind.

 

[Brad Johnson]

A virtuoso? I hope I didn't imply that. However, the instrument/tool you play/use does not give you powers that you do not already have.

Gear definitely IS gear. Some is quite wonderful. None of it changes your ability, even if it does boost your level of satisfaction.

A Navy SEAL is still a badass with a church key and a zip gun.

I disagree with this. I've played instruments that made it possible for me to do things I was currently unable to do on other instruments. And I know that in my case certain instruments can most definitely inspire me in ways that others don't.


Sometimes it seems like personal satisfaction is substituted as what it should be for everyone. If we were all alike, with the same abilities, needs, goals, etc. maybe that would make sense.

 

[esa372]

I've played instruments that made it possible for me to do things I was currently unable to do on other instruments. And I know that in my case certain instruments can most definitely inspire me in ways that others don't.

+1

 

[Baird6869]

This thread made me buy a USA MTD 535 and a USA Spector in the last 2 days.

I now have 2 great basses on their way to me..... and over $3k less than one $8500 Fodera still in the bank.

All..... THANK YOU for showing my wife that spending $5k+ on 2 basses in 2 days.... Is a bargain!!!!!!! Wooooohoooooo!

 

[lucas vigor]

I disagree with this. I've played instruments that made it possible for me to do things I was currently unable to do on other instruments. And I know that in my case certain instruments can most definitely inspire me in ways that others don't.


.

I made this same statement a while back, and was called insane for saying it. Were you one of the people saying it? ( I honestly don't remember)

But whatever. Its totally true. When I play a high end bass versus a squier (TB's flavor of last month) almost immediately I find myself able to pull off techniques I either couldn't quite nail on a lesser bass, or techniques that simply sound better on the high end bass. It's all about the articulation and clarity of tone, not to mention the little fact that these basses simply play better phsyically.

Again, it all matters what kind of music you are playing. Straight rock? A Squier would do the job, sound ok, and no one but another musician would care to look at the headstock...but if you are playing fusion, smooth jazz, urban contemporary, gospel, etc.....oh yeah...that Fodera will fit the bill WAY better. No one has to believe me on this...just look at the players who do those styles...I have NEVER seen an SX or Squier in their hands...and no, not because they are rich guys that either can afford the best or get free killer basses...(Not all those bass players for those styles are rolling in the dough) but because the high end basses, the coffee tables and flight decks SOUND killer for the type of music they play. Clarity. Precision. Craftmanship.

I am of the school that says a working pro needs to (generally) spend close to a grand for a decent bass. No one needs the 8000 dollar bass, of course. But try showing up at a session with the Squier or SX in your hand...see what the producer has to say about that. First thing he will probably do is make you play the studio's MIA Fender bass...at LEAST.

I occasionally come across basses under a grand thay are damn impressive. The Ibanez ATK is one example. Yes, it is probably made in the same way as a squier or SX is....but the materials are better (No, all Alder or maple is not alike).

But when you get to the level of Fodera you are getting the best. And it goes beyond technique or the concept of tone only being in the hands. Lay a Fodera down next to a Squier with the same type of strings, and use a drumstick to hit the open E string. Sorry, but the Fodera sounds better. Not a little better, but a LOT better. To some extent, tone is subjective...but not THAT subjective. Well trained bassists generally agree on what makes for good tone..and you see it when they use words like "Piano-like" to describe a low, open note. That's really not subjective. It either sounds like a steinway or doesn't.

One thing I am happy about this thread is, I am finally seeing a lot of people praise quality instruments....where have you guys been for the last two years when the hot thing was the 189 dollar bass?

That's one hyped-out fad I will be happy to see dissapear. Then, when I turn on talkbass I can look at pictures of your awesome custom and boutique basses...and dream. Instead of having the nightmare of turning to the bass section and seeing 12 threads about Squiers.

 

[BassDoc51]

Yeah, and no musician ever poured their heart, soul, wisdom, experience, energy, time and love into playing a bass, either. We all just do it for the money. :scowl:

You can make money playing bass? I wish the rest of the band would've told me.

 

[gkbass13]

To the op,

I bought my fodera emperor 5 used. It is alder and maple(insane 3-d quilt, but still) and has a bolt on neck. Paid over 6 grand for it and have zero regrets. Truly inspiring instrument.

Grady

 

[Brad Johnson]

I made this same statement a while back, and was called insane for saying it. Were you one of the people saying it? ( I honestly don't remember)

If you think I was, that's all that matters. Right?


I don't think you can honestly keep track of the people you think are against you. The above proves it... I've had the same position about basses since I figured it out decades ago. And if I called you insane I would've gotten banned. I didn't.

snip - another long anti-cheap bass rant.

So much I don't agree with it's not worth the effort. There is no best, outside of best for you so you can't say what's best, period. And so on.

 

[antontanzil]

I never thought I'll care enough to post in one of this 'Brand X is expensive' threads, but here I am

I worked as a Plant Manager in a Musical Instrument factory in Indonesia, we made guitars, basses, amps, speaker system, etc. I'm also a Dealer for MTD USA and Kingston Basses, R Cocco Strings, etc as my own business. So I know what I'll be talking about.

Can manufacturers such as my Company make good intruments (Basses)? Yes we can, I owned and played with two Basses that my Company made, I got paid to play, and I'm a real gear junkie, so I won't take just any Bass with me to play with.

Do we make 100 Percent good intruments? The answer is: NO, there is not enough time or Material that we can waste to make sure each instrument is superb, 10 percent of them may have supperior quality, compared to their siblings and other instruments at that price range, or sometimes they even can match others with more expensive price tag. The other 90 Percent? It's good enough to go to the Dealers that will sell them, for their price point (Our's range from 100-300 USD; Street Price). Is it good enough for some players? We will be in business for 10 years this year, so apparently it is good enough.

The great thing about all this competition between manufacturers is every company keeps on getting better, I hope to the point of what Leo Fender was going for, an affordable good instrument, how lucky are we, as customers, if that happens.

I owned a Fodera... Yes, a guy that runs an overseas manufacturing company owns a Fodera... And I have a custom made MTD on the way, and proud to be their dealer. I gigged my Fodera, as well as my Basses made by my company. I'm not a collector, not rich enough to be one

Sonds like I'm having two feet on different boats? Not at all... I loved Music and Musical Instruments, Bass Guitars to be exact. I designed a few models of Basses and guitar myself, while controlling their manufacturing all the way to sales and promotion. And BECAUSE OF THAT, I become to appreciate more and more everyday about what people like Vinnie Fodera, Mike Tobias, Roger Sadowsky, Jens Ritter, etc are doing.

To came up with groundbreaking ideas, becoming pioneers, and at the same time survived and have a growing business is EXTREMELY HARD, maintaining quality is not easy too, making sure that each and every one of those instruments all came out the shop in Pristine condition is though, The cost of the Materials, Labor, and Research to achieve such standard is REAL, not some BS a guy said to justify the high price.

To me, the price tag for a Fodera, MTD, Ritter, Sadowsky, etc is worth the IDEA alone, how someone can came up with those things DESERVES to be appreciated in any way, INCLUDING with an expensive price tag.

And apparently I'm not the only one who appreciates those things and willing to pay for it.

Back to the OP, $8500 is a LOT of money, if you have JUST that in your account, DON'T buy a Fodera, or any bass or a car or anything at all, if it's just for one item, there are lots of thing we need in life, and trust me, GAS has no end But don't go bashing on a company's Pricing Policy or their customer's decision to buy one (ore more) of their products. NOTHING justifies a person to put a 'Stupid' label on someone else that doesn't agree with them.

 

[curbowkid]

I never thought I'll care enough to post in one of this 'Brand X is expensive' threads, but here I am

I worked as a Plant Manager in a Musical Instrument factory in Indonesia, we made guitars, basses, amps, speaker system, etc. I'm also a Dealer for MTD USA and Kingston Basses, R Cocco Strings, etc as my own business. So I know what I'll be talking about.

Can manufacturers such as my Company make good intruments (Basses)? Yes we can, I owned and played with two Basses that my Company made, I got paid to play, and I'm a real gear junkie, so I won't take just any Bass with me to play with.

Do we make 100 Percent good intruments? The answer is: NO, there is not enough time or Material that we can waste to make sure each instrument is superb, 10 percent of them may have supperior quality, compared to their siblings and other instruments at that price range, or sometimes they even can match others with more expensive price tag. The other 90 Percent? It's good enough to go to the Dealers that will sell them, for their price point (Our's range from 100-300 USD; Street Price). Is it good enough for some players? We will be in business for 10 years this year, so apparently it is good enough.

The great thing about all this competition between manufacturers is every company keeps on getting better, I hope to the point of what Leo Fender was going for, an affordable good instrument, how lucky are we, as customers, if that happens.

I owned a Fodera... Yes, a guy that runs an overseas manufacturing company owns a Fodera... And I have a custom made MTD on the way, and proud to be their dealer. I gigged my Fodera, as well as my Basses made by my company. I'm not a collector, not rich enough to be one

Sonds like I'm having two feet on different boats? Not at all... I loved Music and Musical Instruments, Bass Guitars to be exact. I designed a few models of Basses and guitar myself, while controlling their manufacturing all the way to sales and promotion. And BECAUSE OF THAT, I become to appreciate more and more everyday about what people like Vinnie Fodera, Mike Tobias, Roger Sadowsky, Jens Ritter, etc are doing.

To came up with groundbreaking ideas, becoming pioneers, and at the same time survived and have a growing business is EXTREMELY HARD, maintaining quality is not easy too, making sure that each and every one of those instruments all came out the shop in Pristine condition is though, The cost of the Materials, Labor, and Research to achieve such standard is REAL, not some BS a guy said to justify the high price.

To me, the price tag for a Fodera, MTD, Ritter, Sadowsky, etc is worth the IDEA alone, how someone can came up with those things DESERVES to be appreciated in any way, INCLUDING with an expensive price tag.

And apparently I'm not the only one who appreciates those things and willing to pay for it.

Back to the OP, $8500 is a LOT of money, if you have JUST that in your account, DON'T buy a Fodera, or any bass or a car or anything at all, if it's just for one item, there are lots of thing we need in life, and trust me, GAS has no end But don't go bashing on a company's Pricing Policy or their customer's decision to buy one (ore more) of their products. NOTHING justifies a person to put a 'Stupid' label on someone else that doesn't agree with them.

/thread

 

[frankenjazz]

personally I don't see what the big stink is about the price. I play a ten year old MIM jazz bass that I bought new ten years ago and it suites me fine. That being said about 4 or 5 years ago Mike Bendy let me noodle on his imperial(?) for 2 min and it had hands down the nicest neck I ever felt. At this point in my life I can't fathom dropping almost $9K but I can see why others would, if you can afford it more power to you. There is a reason so many here on talkbass own them, there is a reason some many great big name bassists own them. Not only that but from a purely aesthetic point of view they are leading the way in body designs (single cuts anyone?) in a way that the rest of the industry is still playing catch up. More to the point the average joe can't appreciate a hand made bufori because what use does he have for it? but someone who is a car lover and adamant driver can rattle of a list of reasons why it's worth every single penny. Boom I think i just made a great analogy.

 

[pringlw]

I think it's safe to say that if any one of the employees at any of the high end builders won the lottery on Friday, they wouldn't be showing up for work on Monday. To use such fruity prose as to claim someone's "heart, soul and love" are in a consumer product is to stretch credibility beyond the limit. It's just ridiculous. People put their "heart,soul, wisdom, experience, energy, time and love" into their kids, not into a guitar that someone paid them to build.

Funny how there are a few companies that get this kind of rabid defense from the TB membership. And in the case of Fodera, most of those acolytes have never owned one of their products. This is all amazing to me.

You don't understand the heart of a craftsman my friend.... I hope you aren't making my suits!

 

[NickyBass]

I think it's safe to say that if any one of the employees at any of the high end builders won the lottery on Friday, they wouldn't be showing up for work on Monday. To use such fruity prose as to claim someone's "heart, soul and love" are in a consumer product is to stretch credibility beyond the limit. It's just ridiculous. People put their "heart,soul, wisdom, experience, energy, time and love" into their kids, not into a guitar that someone paid them to build.

Funny how there are a few companies that get this kind of rabid defense from the TB membership. And in the case of Fodera, most of those acolytes have never owned one of their products. This is all amazing to me.

Most of the boutique builders that I have spoken to work alone. They have no employees. As for the ones that do, I would imagine that there is certain level of pride to be working for Fodera/Smith/etc...and a high level of discipline, work and expierience to get to that point. These aren't just guys off the street who happen to know how to operate a jigsaw. In fact, I would bet that they would build more if they won the lottery.

 

[steubig]

In fact, I would bet that they would build more if they won the lottery.

i was talking to vinny fodera about a project i'd love to do, but is too expensive. told him i had to win the lottery to do it. he says, "if i won the lottery, i'll make it for you for free" (c'mon vinny!!!! win that thing).

i know it's idol chit-chat, but he didn't say, "i'm heading to the bahamas" . . .

 

[GHOST AT]

To some of the people griping about Foderas prices, Vinny ,Joey, and Jason are not greedy people . They are not Wall Street maggots or bankers intent on liberating you of your money. I read somewhere that the rent alone in the Brooklyn shop is 35.0000 a month!!! If these guys were in it for the money, They would have many overseas models, of sold out to some crappy, money hungry company such as Gibson.

 

[sigmafloyd]

this thread is exhausting...unsubscribed

 

[Phil Smith]

Buy the best bass you can afford that enables you to do the job to the best of your abilities. There are great basses at every price point. Accept the fact that someone will have a bass that will cost more, look prettier, have more prestige and may sound and play better; this will always be the case. Don't hate.

 

[Roy Vogt]

One really, really odd feature of this thread is that we have had Justin from Fodera show up as well as steubig, who is a long-time endorser and people are still debating this and the various points.
But, hey, it's Talkbass. I get it. I've seen this happen in discussions about players, basses, education, you name it. Comes with the territory with an internet forum.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to log off and log on to the New England Patriots forum (I'm mrbadazfutbol924) and tell Bill Belichick and Tom Brady they don't know what they're doing at all.....

 

[awilkie84]

To some of the people griping about Foderas prices, Vinny ,Joey, and Jason are not greedy people . They are not Wall Street maggots or bankers intent on liberating you of your money. I read somewhere that the rent alone in the Brooklyn shop is 35.0000 a month!!! If these guys were in it for the money, They would have many overseas models, of sold out to some crappy, money hungry company such as Gibson.

Where the heck can I rent a shop space for $35/mo!?