If tone really is in the fingers...

[JimmyM]

In the case of my favorite bassist Chris Squire, it's blatantly obvious when he isn't playing a Ric, because... it doesn't sound like a Ric. Geddy is a little harder, his Jazz sounds pretty Ric like, but the Steinberger and Wal he used intermittently didn't sound like either one. Some basses have a really distinctive tone, some don't.

Chris didn't want those other basses to sound like he does with his Ric. He specifically used them to get different sounds. But it still sounded like Chris Squire playing them. And when Geddy was using his Wal and Steiney, he may have dialed in a more bassy sound on the new stuff, but the older stuff they played live sounded pretty close. And the playing was such that you still tell it was Geddy and not an imitation. And as many people who are fond of saying that a Ric's distinctive tone can never sound like a Jazz, Geddy sure gets them sounding about the same.

Ever hear the story about Ted Nugent and Eddie Van Halen? This is a good one for @socialleper , too. In Ted's heyday, he played a Gibson Byrdland hollowbody into a wall of Fender Twin Reverbs and Dual Showman cabs, while Eddie used his Frankenstrat, a small handful of pedals, and three Marshall stacks voltage-controlled by a Variac. Well VH was opening for Ted on a run of shows, and he asked Eddie if he could try out his rig because he wanted to see where the magical tone was coming from, and Eddie said sure. He puts on Eddie's guitar, doesn't change a thing, starts playing, and found that he sounded just like he always does on Eddie's rig, despite nothing at all being similar about them.

I have a friend who plays with Gary Puckett, and usually uses a Dean 5-string with active pre into an Eden rig that sounds nothing like me whatsoever. One night, I let him sit in on my stuff, which at the time was a P with a Geezer, an Ampeg SVT 7 Pro and 410he. He picks up my P, starts playing, and sounds just like he does on his own stuff. Wasn't even close to how I sound. Was it a dead nuts match to his own sound? No. But it was extremely close, and there wasn't a person in the joint who thought he sounded much different using my stuff vs his own stuff.

And once again, THAT is what "tone is in the fingers" means, not this silly notion you have that it should mean you can pick up a Hofner with dead flats and an Alembic with new rounds and they should sound identical in every way if tone really is in the fingers.

 

[Texican]

If gold hardware only came with a package...


By all means "cite" examples of it only being available with an expensive package vs. a simple option.

Trivial components don't push anything up drastically, contrary to what you initially wrote. It's like saying fabric protection helps push the price of a car up drastically. It doesn't. Dude.

I already mentioned Carvin as an older example. I believe Sire does things the same way with their bass series lineups. I've clarified my point and intent numerous times. At this point I'm convinced that you're either just trolling, rude and unfriendly, or have a learning disability... all valid reasons for me to refrain from engaging you any further. Take care

 

[Brad Johnson]

I already mentioned Carvin as an older example. I believe Sire does things the same way with their bass series lineups. I've clarified my point and intent numerous times. At this point I'm convinced that you're either just trolling, rude and unfriendly, or have a learning disability... all valid reasons for me to refrain from engaging you any further. Take care

You just can't seem to handle someone simply disagreeing with you. Nobody is making you keep responding to me and you clearly won't stop. And keep digging deeper in the process.

Carvin? Geez... you could get gold hardware without buying anything else. So one more great example.


And again, if I accused you of having a learning disability... but I didn't.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Chris didn't want those other basses to sound like he does with his Ric. He specifically used them to get different sounds. But it still sounded like Chris Squire playing them. And when Geddy was using his Wal and Steiney, he may have dialed in a more bassy sound on the new stuff, but the older stuff they played live sounded pretty close. And the playing was such that you still tell it was Geddy and not an imitation. And as many people who are fond of saying that a Ric's distinctive tone can never sound like a Jazz, Geddy sure gets them sounding about the same.

Ever hear the story about Ted Nugent and Eddie Van Halen? This is a good one for @socialleper , too. In Ted's heyday, he played a Gibson Byrdland hollowbody into a wall of Fender Twin Reverbs and Dual Showman cabs, while Eddie used his Frankenstrat, a small handful of pedals, and three Marshall stacks voltage-controlled by a Variac. Well VH was opening for Ted on a run of shows, and he asked Eddie if he could try out his rig because he wanted to see where the magical tone was coming from, and Eddie said sure. He puts on Eddie's guitar, doesn't change a thing, starts playing, and found that he sounded just like he always does on Eddie's rig, despite nothing at all being similar about them.

I have a friend who plays with Gary Puckett, and usually uses a Dean 5-string with active pre into an Eden rig that sounds nothing like me whatsoever. One night, I let him sit in on my stuff, which at the time was a P with a Geezer, an Ampeg SVT 7 Pro and 410he. He picks up my P, starts playing, and sounds just like he does on his own stuff. Wasn't even close to how I sound. Was it a dead nuts match to his own sound? No. But it was extremely close, and there wasn't a person in the joint who thought he sounded much different using my stuff vs his own stuff.

And once again, THAT is what "tone is in the fingers" means, not this silly notion you have that it should mean you can pick up a Hofner with dead flats and an Alembic with new rounds and they should sound identical in every way if tone really is in the fingers.

There are always going to be people who push back hard on this. Honestly I'd chalk it up to a basic lack of experience. If you play around enough different people in real life and exchange gear, the basis of the premise will likely become obvious. Seen it hundreds of times.

If you take the same bass and let five people play it without making any adjustments, by the opposing logic the tone should remain the same. If it is drastically different and NOTHING ELSE HAS CHANGED...

What do they attribute that to? The lunar cycle?

 

[JimmyM]

There are always going to be people who push back hard on this. Honestly I'd chalk it up to a basic lack of experience. If you play around enough different people in real life and exchange gear, the basis of the premise will likely become obvious. Seen it hundreds of times.

If you take the same bass and let five people play it without making any adjustments, by the opposing logic the tone should remain the same. If is drastically different and NOTHING ELSE HAS CHANGED...

What do they attribute that to? The lunar cycle?

I have no earthly idea. Get it? "Earthly id..."

Oh, never mind.

 

[Texican]

You just can't seem to handle someone simply disagreeing with you. Nobody is making you keep responding to me and you clearly won't stop. And keep digging deeper in the process.

Carvin? Geez... you could get gold hardware without buying anything else. So one more great example.


And again, if I accused you of having a learning disability... but I didn't.

We can all disagree with each other without sounding like a pompous annoying jerk. Funny thing is, have of the things you disagree with weren't even points that people were making. You just read into it wrong.

 

[Texican]

There are always going to be people who push back hard on this. Honestly I'd chalk it up to a basic lack of experience. If you play around enough different people in real life and exchange gear, the basis of the premise will likely become obvious. Seen it hundreds of times.

If you take the same bass and let five people play it without making any adjustments, by the opposing logic the tone should remain the same. If is drastically different and NOTHING ELSE HAS CHANGED...

What do they attribute that to? The lunar cycle?

See man, I agree with this, and I have agreed with most of what you said in other posts. But you just seem to want to hunt down arguments. Shame

 

[MtManiac]

I think this thread has run its course. Anyone got a fork?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I have no earthly idea. Get it? "Earthly id..."

Oh, never mind.

"Try the veal..."

 

[Brad Johnson]

We can all disagree with each other without sounding like a pompous annoying jerk. Funny thing is, have of the things you disagree with weren't even points that people were making. You just read into it wrong.

Considering how many times you've disparaged me, this is rich. Fortunately I can't disparage you

 

[Brad Johnson]

See man, I agree with this, and I have agreed with most of what you said in other posts. But you just seem to want to hunt down arguments. Shame

You can't seem to grasp that someone disagreeing with you does not equal an argument. You probably don't have a clue as to how you've perpetuated this. You could've let my disagreement stand vs. calling me names. And you didn't.

 

[Copperhead]

This "finger" thing is a poorly written axiom that needs to be revised or dumped

Like used to be said back in the seventies, right on.
However, don't expect it to happen.

 

[stuntbass77]

I Yes and no. I play the same on all my basses but when I had my Warwick and US Masters bass ( as well as my fenders ) my tone was different on all of them no matter how I dialed in the tone knobs or amp. Do I sound like "me" , yes but I cannot make one sound exactly like the other no matter what. So, easy answer is sometime you need to pay more to have that bass that gets the tone "in your head". Now, do I think someone has to pay $10,000 to get said tone, absolutely not. Unless I was a studio musician ( and even then ) I would maybe spring for a Metro Sadowsky but I wouldn't pay over $3-5,000 for any bass.

 

[BlueTalon]

Unless I was a studio musician ( and even then ) I would maybe spring for a Metro Sadowsky but I wouldn't pay over $3-5,000 for any bass.

The OP set the bar pretty low with a $300 price point. I share your opinion -- most of what I do, I do on a bass that cost about $2000, and I don't think I'd ever pay more than $3000 for a bass... but then, I reserve the right to change my opinion and flex the plastic if I ever see a bass I deem worthy of it. Not likely though.

 

[JimmyM]

I Yes and no. I play the same on all my basses but when I had my Warwick and US Masters bass ( as well as my fenders ) my tone was different on all of them no matter how I dialed in the tone knobs or amp. Do I sound like "me" , yes

OK, you can stop there

 

[stuntbass77]

OK, you can stop there

And furthermore.........

 

[SLO Surfer]

Settled...

 

[Rabidhamster]

...why does most every top notch bassist or guitarist play instruments that cost thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars? Why aren't they just playing $300 basses and guitars off the rack from Guitar Center? I mean, if tone is really in the fingers, it shouldn't matter right?

If tone is all in the fingers, why would the fingers not be deserving of a top-quality place to work?

 

[Jackcrow]

There is no such thing as good tone or bad tone. Just different sounds.

 

[Vinny_G]

The tone may be in the fingers, but what is certain is that the groove is in the heart.