- May 30, 2000
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- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
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I'm in love with Tal
- Thread starter JacoLesFlea
- Start date
- Jun 19, 2004
- 4,782
- 83
- 42
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
Heyo Doc, let me restate from my earlier post in this thread that she is a lot better than I am! 
She's not at the same level as Victor Wooten, Matt Garrison, or even someone her own age like Hadrien Feraud, et al, and that some of the reason she's as high-profile as she is might be because she's a woman. I totally understand why the sour grapes aspect comes up, but I assure you it's not that—I readily and happily admit that she can and does hold her own with Jeff Beck, something I undeniably couldn't do!
I think there is some confusion about the use of the terms "average" and "mediocre" in my and others' posts on this thread. We are not comparing her to all bassists when we say average: She is far, far above the average bassist. However, she's not remotely as good a player as, say, Hadrien Feraud, who is her age and plays the same style of music, yet is virtually unknown even to bassists. This isn't terribly uncommon among up-and-coming male instrumentalists—as I said before, stick your head into any of the practice rooms at the dorms in Berklee and you'll hear playing comparable to Tal's.
With no ego lurking in this statement, I posit that a contributing factor to her success is the novelty of her being a woman. That doesn't mean she can't hold her own; it just means what it says. I also don't think there's anything wrong with her taking the best gigs offered to her, regardless of "ulterior" motives (if there are any) aside from that she's the best value bassist available. The fact that she's a woman is a selling point for her fans, and not only is that fine, it's inseparable from the decision to hire her as a touring player. This is the entertainment business as well as the music business; I'm not sour about that and I do it, too, when I'm promoting bands. I wish nothing but the best for Tal but think she has a ways to go before she's at the same level of musicianship as some of the other session players who have filled the role of "Jeff Beck's bassist."
Hope this helps!
She's not at the same level as Victor Wooten, Matt Garrison, or even someone her own age like Hadrien Feraud, et al, and that some of the reason she's as high-profile as she is might be because she's a woman. I totally understand why the sour grapes aspect comes up, but I assure you it's not that—I readily and happily admit that she can and does hold her own with Jeff Beck, something I undeniably couldn't do!
I think there is some confusion about the use of the terms "average" and "mediocre" in my and others' posts on this thread. We are not comparing her to all bassists when we say average: She is far, far above the average bassist. However, she's not remotely as good a player as, say, Hadrien Feraud, who is her age and plays the same style of music, yet is virtually unknown even to bassists. This isn't terribly uncommon among up-and-coming male instrumentalists—as I said before, stick your head into any of the practice rooms at the dorms in Berklee and you'll hear playing comparable to Tal's.
With no ego lurking in this statement, I posit that a contributing factor to her success is the novelty of her being a woman. That doesn't mean she can't hold her own; it just means what it says. I also don't think there's anything wrong with her taking the best gigs offered to her, regardless of "ulterior" motives (if there are any) aside from that she's the best value bassist available. The fact that she's a woman is a selling point for her fans, and not only is that fine, it's inseparable from the decision to hire her as a touring player. This is the entertainment business as well as the music business; I'm not sour about that and I do it, too, when I'm promoting bands. I wish nothing but the best for Tal but think she has a ways to go before she's at the same level of musicianship as some of the other session players who have filled the role of "Jeff Beck's bassist."
Hope this helps!
really.......mediocre/average by pro electric jazz session players? gimme a break. she can play. in fact, id say from what ive heard id say she has better feel than some of the guys you mentioned. ill be honest, as a jazz/fusion guy i only really listen to stuff that inspires me to work. so, ive only listened to her album once or twice
but she's still good.
- May 30, 2000
- 4,707
- 257
- Disclosures
- Creator of: iGigBook Sheet Music Manager
really.......mediocre/average by pro electric jazz session players? gimme a break. she can play. in fact, id say from what ive heard id say she has better feel than some of the guys you mentioned. ill be honest, as a jazz/fusion guy i only really listen to stuff that inspires me to work. so, ive only listened to her album once or twice
Does that mean that her cd doesn't inspire you to work or that it does?
listened to it a couple of times, havent felt the need to since. im not saying i dont like it. im just saying it didnt kick my ass
Yeah, come to think of it, Victor Wooten can command a huge price as far as bassists go. He really is the best of the best around today imo!
well, that is your opinion. I know her, see her around town and She has subbed for me on one of my gigs ('The Subject" @ Sambuca jazz cafe back in '04)... she has plenty of chops that you might not see on youtube or with Vic, but she plays for what the song needs and that's still a big deal in my book.
- Jun 19, 2004
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- 83
- 42
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- Endorsing Artist, Schroeder Cabinets
Cream-of-the-crop player, for sure.
Her CD is one of the only 'bass' CD's I regularly listen to (along with Bona's stuff). I think the writing is great, her tone is wonderful, and she does a great job (IMO of course) of putting the bass out front in the mix and compositions, but not turning it into the 'wankfest' that the vast majority of bass CD's turn into.
As you can see by my influences in my profile, I really, really dig the 'expert sideman' (or woman!) bass players. The guys and gals with great tone, great reading chops, great execution, but who still conceptualize the bass as a primarily supportive instrument versus 'bass as saxophone' or other lead instrument.
I agree, Tal does not seem in the same 'solo artist' sort of meg-chop thing as Victor or Dominique or Manring, etc. However, she is VERY much in the company of Sklar, East, Lee, Johnson, and the other players who are contracted for expert, tasteful, perfect support of the tune.
I guess I love her too
(just like Leland, Will, and Jimmy J.
)Edit: I feel sorry that the idiot who interviewed her on that talkshow introduced her as the 'next big thing in jazz' or whatever. That was stupid, and I'm sure did not come from her or any other musician who has a clue about anything.
I bought tal's cd and it is fantastic. I find her melodic choices so simple and yet fresh. Great groove player as well, actually awesome imo.
Geez, to be only a twenty something and playing with the big whigs
I think because she is a well seasoned bassist gets her the gigs and, ofcourse, the young face appeals but shes got the skills. I don't think that looks get you the gig with Chick, Herbie, and Jeff. You got to show them skills upfront.
Btw, she's performing at this years BPL: her trio is gonna destroy
Geez, to be only a twenty something and playing with the big whigs
I think because she is a well seasoned bassist gets her the gigs and, ofcourse, the young face appeals but shes got the skills. I don't think that looks get you the gig with Chick, Herbie, and Jeff. You got to show them skills upfront.Btw, she's performing at this years BPL: her trio is gonna destroy
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
Her CD is one of the only 'bass' CD's I regularly listen to (along with Bona's stuff). I think the writing is great, her tone is wonderful, and she does a great job (IMO of course) of putting the bass out front in the mix and compositions, but not turning it into the 'wankfest' that the vast majority of bass CD's turn into.
As you can see by my influences in my profile, I really, really dig the 'expert sideman' (or woman!) bass players. The guys and gals with great tone, great reading chops, great execution, but who still conceptualize the bass as a primarily supportive instrument versus 'bass as saxophone' or other lead instrument.
I agree, Tal does not seem in the same 'solo artist' sort of meg-chop thing as Victor or Dominique or Manring, etc. However, she is VERY much in the company of Sklar, East, Lee, Johnson, and the other players who are contracted for expert, tasteful, perfect support of the tune.
I guess I love her too
Edit: I feel sorry that the idiot who interviewed her on that talkshow introduced her as the 'next big thing in jazz' or whatever. That was stupid, and I'm sure did not come from her or any other musician who has a clue about anything.
playing aside, the only reason i dont listen to it much is because i can hear the influences a little too strongly. to me, i heard "songs in the style of wayne krantz or geoff keezer" rather than influenced by with a spin. i love scott kinsey's disc because i hear the zawinul influence without it sounding like azawinul syndicate record.
Doc, I couldn't have said it better myself.
I think sexism drives some posters on TB, but obviously not all of them. Some people just aren't fans of her style or skills...fair enough. The part that I find interesting is that while we don't all list the same influences on our profiles, we also don't get so worked up and angry because "Joe X" likes a bass player that "Joe Z" doesn't. This only seems to happen when discussing Tal or Esperanza apparently. Weird and telling.
Things have slowly been getting better for female bassists. The rampant sexism is slowly disapearing and I think as bassists and drummers, females take the most heat as those are "traditionally" more popularly played by men.
Female bass players have been taking cr@p for years though, trust me. I've gotten my fair share. As female players we are out there representing ALL female players whether we want to or not. When I walk on a stage most of the audience is EXPECTING me to not be good. In many cases we have to play TWICE as good as the guys just to be taken seriously. Trust me, i've been playing for 20 years and only recently have I seen some bigger changes in peoples attitudes.
On a positive note, I think it's a great thing to see more and more females getting the attention they deserve. It can only get better in the future. This is part of the reason I admire Tal. She is out there showing the world that women CAN play bass.
- Dec 21, 2007
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speaking of exceptional and awesome and female (and cute), meshell and cindy blackman will be sharing the stage at berklee in october
Aww now THAT would be cool. Too bad I won't be able to see that
I'll keep slapping in E in my den and you will go back to the studio and get another band soon.
This made me LOL
Like others say, she's very good, but not excellent. BUT, she has the talent to become excellent one day and that's sure. Sure she got some awesome chops and all, but somewhere, she is not on the same level as other bass idols technically. I mean, she's good, but she doesn't deserve to be included with other giants like wooten, garrison, etc...
To me, she's like John5. The dude is very very good, but cannot compare to other guitar heroes.
To me, she's like John5. The dude is very very good, but cannot compare to other guitar heroes.
To be able to play with the likes of Hancock, Corea, Beck, Vai, etc...they must see something in her playing and I doubt it was her gender or her looks that got her the gig.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tal_Wilkenfeld
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tal_Wilkenfeld
