Is All Tube Worth It?

[KevInDaBassment]

For me, there are two factors that hold me back in what amp I select (tube or solid state)...

1) Cost - Definitely a GAS killer for the young'ns like myself, especially when you are working to fund college and pay other bills. Bang for the buck doesn't even begin to describe the kind of bargains I have to look for lol.

-Typically this brings up the used gear option, but I am far less proficient in fixing musical instruments than I'd like...I just barely learned how to do a very basic setup on them. I've been burned on many used pieces of gear that I've bought and realized I only own two pieces of used gear, both of which are Boss pedals (the TU-2 is sort of broken, the led strand wigs out, but I use the arrows and note display to tune correctly). Since I have bad luck with used gear, I tend to buy new. When I can get a Carvin BX500 for $399, and I tossed $600 + shipping into a Peavey VB2 that died on me and cost me $100 to get back on its feet, I have a poor opinion of used gear. The only QUALITY piece of used gear that I got was a Traynor YBA200-2, that I sold for lack of satisfaction in volume.

2) Weight - yeah, the wimp-out excuse for me has to be how light I am. At 5'7" and a whopping 130lbs, I don't have a lotta muscle to lug heavy stuff around. Half the time, I'm exhausted by the time I'm getting ready to play. If it's on rollers or is lightweight I can deal. I have an Avatar 2x10 neo cab and a Carvin BX500, plus my pedals which have a gator bag and board to carry them on, as my main gigging rig. The fact that this is a light two-trip migration for my gear is amazing. The only head that I thought was a good balance of weight and tone was the Traynor, but it just didn't get as loud as I wanted. Compared to my Carvin which kills brain cells with the master at 2 or 3, at a fraction of the weight and half the price. The tone on the Carvin isn't bad, it just sounds sort of muddied compared to the sound I can get with the VT Bass on.

If I could find a decent-shape Traynor YBA200-2 for $400 or $500 I'd snag it when I have the money, but due to weight and price I don't see myself getting an all-tuber anytime soon. I have a better chance of striking it big, getting an ampeg endorsement and having them give me free gear and a roadie to schlep it around for me

 

[Korladis]

An all tube amp is worth it for some of us. For others, it isn't.

 

[lowphatbass]

The amps I like the best are good amps.

Exactly.

The reliability aspect has been covered. One thing I'd mention is the fact that many good old tube amps can repaired and rebuilt over and over again to near original specs or better. Many have and will outlive their owners. They do require more regular servicing however.

I use both, but more often than not it's SS power with a tube pre. To me a hybrid set-up responds, sounds and feels nothing like an all tube amplifier.

 

[Rockmusician]

All tube has a nice sound but moving a 100 pound head gets tiring.

 

[Korladis]

A 100 pound head would be tiring to move. Good thing mine's only 50 or so.

 

[JimB52]

I like all-tube amps, but the hybrid ones are a good compromise.

 

[JimmyM]

Exactly.

The reliability aspect has been covered. One thing I'd mention is the fact that many good old tube amps can repaired and rebuilt over and over again to near original specs or better. Many have and will outlive their owners. They do require more regular servicing however.

not necessarily. all depends on how hard you are on it. sure, if you turn every knob up to 10 every time you play, it'll require more service. and yeah, you might have to change a tube or two occasionally. but i think the amount of regular servicing needed is often quite overestimated by those who are in the business of selling tubes and capacitors.

 

[Rufus]

It's really simple. Play through a tube amp and then play through a SS one. Which do you prefer. If it's the tube one and you prefer it enough to deal with the weight buy one. If not then SS is the way to go.

My opinion FWIW is that I like tube amps but I am not prepared to go through the hassle of toting one around. I use a Class D SS amp. That said, I do like to have a tube in the chain.

Edit: A properly designed and maintained tube amp should be just as reliable as a properly designed and maintained SS one.

This sums it up.

I love my custom built tube preamp, an SS amp, and neo 210 cab.

You will always be happy with "your" choice based on "your" preference. Otoh, you'll never be happy with a choice based on someone else's preference, unless of course, it matches yours.

 

[rockstarbassist]

I've never had qualms about "reliability" for tube amps.

I had a like-new 400+ for about 6 mo's before my M9 and it just came down to workability for live settings. The DI on the 400+ is not very good, so you're left with DI'ing pre-amp (which makes carrying around a 50lb tube amp useless) or trying to convince ig'nant soundmen to mic your cab (better chance of winning the Powerball).

The DI's on SS/hybrid amps just work and sound better for an active player like me. But the flat out power of that amp through a big sealed cab was mind-numbing.

I tried running the Speaker Out into my Radial JDI, and that sounded ok, but again if you're doing that might as well just use an onboard DI. If we ran our own sound I'd still have it and just mike up every night with the Heil PR-40.

 

[chuck3]

Tubes have tone you want. The weight is a problem. My compromise is to use an EBS ValveDrive with one tube as a preamp (not an effect per se) into a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 that has one tube. Not perfect, but the pieces fit into a gear bag and weigh under 10 lbs.

The Streamliner could eliminate the ValveDrive, but I don't have one yet, so I work with what I've got.

 

[Munjibunga]

I have a buddy who is set on getting an Ampeg SVT Classic. I'm more of a guy who prefers a hybrid amp setup due to weight and reliability.

He's in a band that gigs infrequently, but practices 2-3X a week.

What's your take on the all tube bass amp?

Maybe I'm missing something by choosing my Eden WT-500 over an all tube amp????

No, you're not missing anything except a sore back and expensive tube replacements. The tonal differences aren't that significant in a gigging situation, and the only reason to consider a tube amp is for authenticity in a tribute band. If you need the tube sound, there are plenty of stomp boxes out there that will emulate it well enough for a crowded gig. Your audience won't have a clue. That's it.

 

[murphy]

Tube amps....Bell like clarity.....depth of notes......Rich fatness

so heavy.... to be loud enough not to break up

If I have to carry myself........solid state

 

[georgestrings]

No, you're not missing anything except a sore back and expensive tube replacements. The tonal differences aren't that significant in a gigging situation, and the only reason to consider a tube amp is for authenticity in a tribute band. If you need the tube sound, there are plenty of stomp boxes out there that will emulate it well enough for a crowded gig. Your audience won't have a clue. That's it.

Agreed - not to mention that in a decent sized venue, your rig's there for you and your bandmates - the paying customers are hearing you thru the FOH, anyways...


- georgestrings

 

[Jim C]

Tube amps....Bell like clarity.....depth of notes......Rich fatness

so heavy.... to be loud enough not to break up

If I have to carry myself........solid state

This
For me it's the 3D soundstage of tubes that I'm hard pressed to find in most SS amps; also like the natural compression tubes offer when the right size head is matched for the application

 

[pasta4lnch]

personally I'll take a fat juicy tranny over a tube but all tube vs. hybrid/ss is loaded as I've played great and crap amps in both camps.

but if you really want to know - would you be willing to pay? then go rent one for a gig.

fwiw when I started doing a lot of studio stuff (on guitar) I was using a pod (quick, cheap, ease fix) the cost of getting an amp set up (amp, mics, mic pre's, compressors etc) was staggering. I wanted to KNOW it was the right move. I rented an AC-30 for a session, cost $75. Played the part - plugged in the pod to A/B . . . got half way through the 1st bar, unplugged it and haven't used it for recording since . . . best $75 I ever spent!

 

[Jim C]

I would think that 100's of millions of dollars have been spent on R&D, manufacturing, and marketing in regards to "a SS amp that sounds like tubes"

Can't recall anyone marketing an amp that "sounds like SS" since discrete component construction hasn't been affordable for years

 

[IvanMike]

I would think that 100's of millions of dollars have been spent on R&D, manufacturing, and marketing in regards to "a SS amp that sounds like tubes"

Can't recall anyone marketing an amp that "sounds like SS" since discrete component construction hasn't been affordable for years

not really, and it may not be possible. I can tell you "they" haven't spent that much $$ on emulation R&D because there aren't enough of "us" (being bass players, guitar players, high end home audio nuts, etc) to justify spending that much. Now an electric can opener - that's something lots of folk would buy. Throw in a healthy dose of chaos and complex dynamic waveforms and I think 100% tube emulation is pie in the sky.

Just about veryone so far has been right in this thread, from bassman paul to munji to jimmyM. If you hear a difference you like then it's worth it.....as long as you are willing to carry it and pay the premium cost.

I like tube amps a lot, some a lot more than others. If I had my druthers I'd probably be hauling around a demeter or aguilar tube block with a couple of different preamps. However, seeing as I didn't win the lottery and I seem to be missing some roadies (essential with my back and elbow) The tube amp will have to wait.

On an individual level it's really about cost for me at this point. I don't whine about cabs that weigh in at 50#, and a tube head won't be too much more than that and they tend to be compact (compared to 8x10 cabs). That and I think especially in today's market you should have a small SS head you can take anywhere with a minimum of hassle for practices or smaller gigs. In a perfect world I'd have both.

 

[Ben Clarke]

I subscribe to JimmyM's philosophy - my rig is there to give me wood. Tube pre/ ss power works for me, but nothing compares to my B15N, YBA3 and SVT. I use the B15N whenever it's enough output. The big ones get out less. I get wood often enough in life, and am also lazy.

 

[s_mcsleazy]

i love my tubes. i went all tube in 2009 and ever since then ive had a constant hardon whenever i play.

 

[seamonkey]

Can't recall anyone marketing an amp that "sounds like SS" since discrete component construction hasn't been affordable for years

This is such a false dichotomy.
Humans can't detect harmonic distortion at less than 3% - then it's just barely audible. It's a simple matter and cheap to build kilowatt SS amps that never need to do anything but clean power. Warm in = Warm out but louder.

Modeling is done for many instruments and effects. The plugin market is flowing with them. iPad is now hopping with models. They are not just doing "tubes". They are doing many kinds of amps, cabinets, effects, and instruments, organs, strings, woodwinds, pianos. The money is not just spent on tubes, but on modeling many things in general.