Is this a “thing” now?

[chazolson]

There’s a kind of “musicians wanted” ad I see popping up with more frequency.

Here’s an example from this morning:

—-

VETERAN Cali/Nashville drummer, 50 years experience, professional, looking for 2 or 3 musicians, preferably under 30, that might have interest in 60's and early '70's music and playing it.

Just in conceptual stage, so if you are a possible fit, hmu and let's talk.

All good things begin with communication.

No messages from older, jaded peeps please. Everyone can just do their own thing, I'll do mine.

——

So here’s a guy, at least 65 years old if he’s been a playing pro for 50 years, who wants to play music popular when he was a little boy, but he doesn’t want to do it with anyone who was born before the turn of the 21st century.

As an “older, jaded peep”, this puzzles me. Who is the target demographic for this project? College kids with their parents’ taste in music? Hey, the 60s were great, but you old people suck?

I have found that, if an ad mentions a required age for a position, that the person placing the ad has some, let’s say, “issues” they need to work out. Run, don’t walk, away.

 

[two fingers]

There’s a kind of “musicians wanted” ad I see popping up with more frequency.

Here’s an example from this morning:

—-

VETERAN Cali/Nashville drummer, 50 years experience, professional, looking for 2 or 3 musicians, preferably under 30, that might have interest in 60's and early '70's music and playing it.

Just in conceptual stage, so if you are a possible fit, hmu and let's talk.

All good things begin with communication.

No messages from older, jaded peeps please. Everyone can just do their own thing, I'll do mine.

——

So here’s a guy, at least 65 years old if he’s been a playing pro for 50 years, who wants to play music popular when he was a little boy, but he doesn’t want to do it with anyone who was born before the turn of the 21st century.

As an “older, jaded peep”, this puzzles me. Who is the target demographic for this project? College kids with their parents’ taste in music? Hey, the 60s were great, but you old people suck?

I have found that, if an ad mentions a required age for a position, that the person placing the ad has some, let’s say, “issues” they need to work out. Run, don’t walk, away.

OK, I tend to agree with you on some points. However....

In my area (Easter NC) musicians my age (51) and older are all overweight, out of shape, tired, angry, get-off-my-lawn, lazy, stuck-in-their-ways, don't-wanna-learn-parts-correctly, geezers who want to play half @$$ versions of tired music in white socks, shorts, and New Balance sneakers. They don't want to bother with stage lights. They want to gig on the same clothed they wore to cut the grass earlier that day. Bothering to even ATTEMPT to learn songs correctly is a no go. They want to CASUALLY act out their hobby in front of people. If I'm in a bar, and one of these bands starts to set up, I usually don't make it through sound check before I have to leave. They are (in a word) sad.

In short, I would NEVER join a band made up of people my age or older in my area. (Your area may be different.)

I don't have "issues" myself. I DO, however, take issue with those who dip their toes in the shallow end of the show biz pool with zero effort whatsoever to dress the part, learn the music properly, or (in general) TRY to make a bit of a show out of it.

That said, I would never SAY THAT in an ad. You gotta play the game, man. A little diplomacy is on order here. It took me nearly two years to put together a band of people who care enough to do things "right".

 

[Marko 1]

That said, I would never SAY THAT in an ad

I'm glad you said it here, though...

what an excellent read.

 

[chazolson]

OK, I tend to agree with you on some points. However....

In my area (Easter NC) musicians my age (51) and older are all overweight, out of shape, tired, angry, get-off-my-lawn, lazy, stuck-in-their-ways, don't-wanna-learn-parts-correctly, geezers who want to play half @$$ versions of tired music in white socks, shorts, and New Balance sneakers. They don't want to bother with stage lights. They want to gig on the same clothed they wore to cut the grass earlier that day. Bothering to even ATTEMPT to learn songs correctly is a no go. They want to CASUALLY act out their hobby in front of people. If I'm in a bar, and one of these bands starts to set up, I usually don't make it through sound check before I have to leave. They are (in a word) sad.

In short, I would NEVER join a band made up of people my age or older in my area. (Your area may be different.)

I don't have "issues" myself. I DO, however, take issue with those who dip their toes in the shallow end of the show biz pool with zero effort whatsoever to dress the part, learn the music properly, or (in general) TRY to make a bit of a show out of it.

That said, I would never SAY THAT in an ad. You gotta play the game, man. A little diplomacy is on order here. It took me nearly two years to put together a band of people who care enough to do things "right".

All the musicians your age or older are fat, out of shape, tired, angry, etc. etc. people?

Yipes. This might be a hobby for me too, but it’s one I have always taken seriously enough to be prepared, know the songs, practice my parts, etc. And the people I am currently playing with (one jazz band, one R&R) are all at least as dedicated as I am.

Why would a younger musician be any more likely to learn parts correctly? Why would a 25-year-old be more dedicated? I will agree that a lot of guys my age have gotten lazy, but I’ve met a lot of young guys who don’t practice either.

Bad attitudes come in all shapes, sizes and ages. Hell, I could argue that when grunge came along (when I was in my 40s) that “all” the grungers blew off rehearsals, didn’t know how to tune their instruments, and treated their audiences with contempt. Well, that might have been the pose or posture, but I know Dave Grohl was working just as hard as anyone else.

 

[two fingers]

All the musicians your age or older are fat, out of shape, tired, angry, etc. etc. people?

Yipes. This might be a hobby for me too, but it’s one I have always taken seriously enough to be prepared, know the songs, practice my parts, etc. And the people I am currently playing with (one jazz band, one R&R) are all at least as dedicated as I am.

Why would a younger musician be any more likely to learn parts correctly? Why would a 25-year-old be more dedicated? I will agree that a lot of guys my age have gotten lazy, but I’ve met a lot of young guys who don’t practice either.

Bad attitudes come in all shapes, sizes and ages. Hell, I could argue that when grunge came along (when I was in my 40s) that “all” the grungers blew off rehearsals, didn’t know how to tune their instruments, and treated their audiences with contempt. Well, that might have been the pose or posture, but I know Dave Grohl was working just as hard as anyone else.

OK "all" was an extreme term. MOST of the musicians my age or older.....

In fact, here in Eastern NC, most of the PEOPLE my age or older are falling apart. This is not the healthiest region of the country for sure. Even at my last high school reunion, people in their late forties looked like they had been dragged behind a truck down a gravel road (after spending decades in the buffet line).

Sure, there are lazy youngsters. But there are also plenty who haven't "given up" on looking the part, putting on a little bit of a show, throwing some lights in stage, etc. They're "hungrier", I think. They haven't become jaded and lazy yet.

On the flip side, many of the older people in my area seem to have simply thrown in the towel on life in general. No zest. No attempts to DO ANYTHING to improve the quality of their lives, etc.

I'm one of the "old guys" at my gym and I'm barely in my 50s! It's mostly kids working out there. A few cubicle workers take yoga or sweat classes. But hardly anyone my age or older is in there fighting off the aches and pains and weakness of old age. Most of my peers laugh at me for saying "I can't. Going to the gym that afternoon." Meabwhile they started blood pressure meds several years ago.

Anyway..... slightly off topic rant.

The point is, while I think the ad in the OP was classless, I completely understand the sentiment.

 

[devnulljp]

I think you answered your own questions.

 

[chazolson]

I just realized something that, maybe, I knew all along.

This kinda junk doesn't happen in jazz. Only in rock and pop. In jazz, there are only two things that matter.

1. Are you sober enough to play?
2. Can you actually play?

That's it. Only in rock and pop do you have the so-called rebellious attitudes and DIY crap going on that make people believe it's OK to suck. In jazz you just have to be a musician.

 

[Marko 1]

I have found that, if an ad mentions a required age for a position, that the person placing the ad has some, let’s say, “issues” they need to work out. Run, don’t walk, away.

Isn't that better than wasting your time?

In that long-ass thread about auditioning and not getting the gig,

how many went through the whole grueling process of auditioning, only to be rejected because they never had a chance,

Too old, short, bald, fat... but the ad was written to not be “offensive”.

This guy gave you the chance to run. Kudos to him!

 

[surfguitar]

Probably the guy doesn't want Haight-Ashbury burn-outs. The thing is every successful group I've played in started with people I hung out with. I tend to associate with physically fit people and if they are musicians, fantastic. One final thought, perhaps the ad was to get a rise out the readers?

 

[JRA]

Who is the target demographic for this project?

not sure: maybe just him!

i agree with @Marko 1 that there's nothing wrong with the ad, and i agree with you that this stuff/issue doesn't really apply to most jazz stages.

i don't have the issues with old folks (posers, wannabes) that @two fingers laments (mostly/probably because i'm in a different circle/universe, i.e., i'm playing jazz).

jazz players tend to be cool about 'demographic differences' IME/IMO --- it's like you said: "can you play?" typically matters the most. (not sure where/how/why you coupled jazz and sobriety --- stereotyping? )

"No messages from older, jaded peeps please. Everyone can just do their own thing, I'll do mine."

i think this advertiser is older and jaded!

although i'm older than some rocks, in any band: i'm usually the one who is open to 'all things new or different'. my willingness to try 'new things' with the music has been scary and threatening to many bandmates over the years!

 

[mrcbass]

Everybody has their baggage. If the person running the ad wants to limit his pool of prospects, it's his business. I think he's fool - not every boomer is a slack and not every young person is a shining star - but that's irrelevant.

As a potential responder, I'd rather know up front that he doesn't want another geezer than to put in the effort of prepping for an audition only to find I was never in the running. I have no problem with ads that spell out all the details of the poster's needs and in fact prefer them.

 

[rutrho]

Stuff like that has been popping up here in CA as well. Heck, I've gotten approached by a couple bands lately, in a similar fashion... for what I'm sure are similar reasons.

 

[Jimmy4string]

@mrcbass Has it. I would rather an ad spell it out than leave it -I would prefer to not deal with jaded types myself.
Older is the typical form they have come in as they had so much experience that put them there.
Why even I have found that at times I felt a bit jaded! Say it isnt so Jimmy! Yep, put on your happy pants and do the dance!

 

[gln1955]

Why is the "professional" with 50 years experience running an ad? Is it because he's burned bridges with everyone in his scene and needs to find fresh blood? All the good musicians of his generation won't deal with his BS.

 

[Spidey2112]

In the grand scheme of things, I just know it was a whole lot easier to get a band together back then, than it is today... I think it goes without saying, sans technology, it was a simpler time.

Age shouldn't matter... if you could play, word of mouth spread it faster than Siri treating her virtual mutt to a peanut butter bone.

Just saying...

 

[Rolling Thunder]

The age thing is weird. I hear all the time of actresses in their mid thirties being turned down for a wife of a 50 year old actor because they're "too old".

So what if Sir Paul answered that ad? Nope!

 

[Fynn]

Why is the "professional" with 50 years experience running an ad? Is it because he's burned bridges with everyone in his scene and needs to find fresh blood? All the good musicians of his generation won't deal with his BS.

I didn't even think about that. Every older musician I know (40+) has loads of contacts. Must be something wrong with him if he can't find good band mates through his contacts... Or he's been living in a cave for the past 40 years and played professionally before that

 

[Bass Boy]

I just realized something that, maybe, I knew all along.

This kinda junk doesn't happen in jazz. Only in rock and pop. In jazz, there are only two things that matter.

1. Are you sober enough to play?
2. Can you actually play?

That's it. Only in rock and pop do you have the so-called rebellious attitudes and DIY crap going on that make people believe it's OK to suck. In jazz you just have to be a musician.

I wish that was the case here. I have seen a number of ads from local uni jazz program kids here needing players stating “only apply if you are double/triple jabbed and double boosted” -of course thats from the kids not adults here.

I just realized something that, maybe, I knew all along.

This kinda junk doesn't happen in jazz. Only in rock and pop. In jazz, there are only two things that matter.

1. Are you sober enough to play?
2. Can you actually play?

That's it. Only in rock and pop do you have the so-called rebellious attitudes and DIY crap going on that make people believe it's OK to suck. In jazz you just have to be a musician.

 

[SirMjac28]

The age thing is weird. I hear all the time of actresses in their mid thirties being turned down for a wife of a 50 year old actor because they're "too old".

So what if Sir Paul answered that ad? Nope!

Exactly.. so glad I'm old

 

[Carl Hillman]

There’s a kind of “musicians wanted” ad I see popping up with more frequency.

Here’s an example from this morning:

—-

VETERAN Cali/Nashville drummer, 50 years experience, professional, looking for 2 or 3 musicians, preferably under 30, that might have interest in 60's and early '70's music and playing it.

Just in conceptual stage, so if you are a possible fit, hmu and let's talk.

All good things begin with communication.

No messages from older, jaded peeps please. Everyone can just do their own thing, I'll do mine.

——

So here’s a guy, at least 65 years old if he’s been a playing pro for 50 years, who wants to play music popular when he was a little boy, but he doesn’t want to do it with anyone who was born before the turn of the 21st century.

As an “older, jaded peep”, this puzzles me. Who is the target demographic for this project? College kids with their parents’ taste in music? Hey, the 60s were great, but you old people suck?

I have found that, if an ad mentions a required age for a position, that the person placing the ad has some, let’s say, “issues” they need to work out. Run, don’t walk, away.

Maybe he's looking for players who will work on the cheap.

There are plenty of people out there who will book a trio for a wedding for $1,500 - $2,000 and pay the sidemen $200 each. Ask me how I know.