Well, this conversation still hasn’t done anything to make me feel like spending 15 minutes with Jeff, Victor or Steve. So….
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Jeff Berlin apology
- Thread starter db59
- Start date
- Status
The same can be said for music instructors. Having spent a year under his tutelage at MI, I can attest that he's getting advice he has sorely needed.
Sure, there are bad therapists, just like there are crappy foremen, doctors, investment bankers, etc. It can take some work to find a good one, but when you do it's often invaluable.
Greatly abbreviating, but Jeff has long pointed out that with every instrument except bass (in recent history), students are taught using written music, and by simply playing. That’s how you learn. Styles of playing aren’t taught. “Learning to groove” isn’t a thing. And playing with a metronome isn’t going to give you “good time.” There’s a little more to it than that, and others could probably summarize better. I’m not an educator, but what Jeff says makes sense to me. I wouldn’t even mind if he continued this crusade. But he’s been through this entire bit so many times that I’ve just tuned him out. I’ve seen a very similar apology in the recent past, and he was back at it days later. Like the rest of you, I hope this time it’s legit. Brilliant player.
I think that’s the lesson here, and I think a lot of talkbass can do the same-
there are a lot of roads to reach the same destination, and there are many different destinations worth going to- this is astoundingly true in music, and in particular for the approach to teaching, learning, and mastering the craft
Absolutely.
There are very gifted plays like Glen Campbell who couldn't read a note of music. And there are players who are very academic by can't "create". We're all wired a bit differently. What works for one person might now work for another.
My brother is just naturally gifted. He doesn't know anything about music theory but can play just about any instrument you put in his hands....and he has no idea who he is able to do that.
I feel the same. However "controversial" his views are or were, I always found those ideas thought provoking in a positive way. Maybe because I am not an educator either that I never took anything personally. Jeff Berlin is in the process of learning when he crossed the line into hurting people and relationships and hopefully trying to do better.
It’s not true that every other instrument is taught by formal method, and anyone who has thought about for more than a second should know this. It’s also not true that working with a metronome won’t improve a musician’s time. Neither of these things are even debatable.
I think he’s right that reading music is the best way to learn an instrument, and have bought his materials just to support him. But…I think his controversy creation is just a marketing scheme. Including this apology. If he weren’t creating controversy he would have been forgotten by now. It’s a sad truth.
He’s selling a new CD (which every bass player should buy) and he NEEDS to sell it. Jack Songs, I am going over to order my copy right now.
Agree completely, the timing of this apology and the release of his CD aren’t a coincidence. Also agree, bass players should pick it up.
I’ve always thought Jeff was just being Jeff, never took him to seriously except as a bass player and for his information that he was handing out. But he’s a typical New Yorker that likes to complain and criticize hopefully without being too personal. But that still offends certain people, so apologize away Jeff, not sure if it really matters?
Outside of the 37 people who are aware of this 'controversy'... whatever. At the end of the day, it's okay to disagree. Just don't be a wank about it.
With that in mind, I would like to apologize to the members of TalkBass for all the times my sarcasm hurt someone's feelings. I was raised sarcastic. I'm still sarcastic. But I'm trying to do better (as if!
)
With that in mind, I would like to apologize to the members of TalkBass for all the times my sarcasm hurt someone's feelings. I was raised sarcastic. I'm still sarcastic. But I'm trying to do better (as if!
)
Good for you, Jeff - it's easy to fall back into old habits, when you're as driven and focused as you are. I hope that you're able to keep yourself in check going forward.
I don't know if you still read these forums, but I hope that you do. You may be a prick at times, but you're a well-loved prick with a solid educational pedagogy. It's just not the only solid pedagogy out there.
I wish you the very best.
I don't know if you still read these forums, but I hope that you do. You may be a prick at times, but you're a well-loved prick with a solid educational pedagogy. It's just not the only solid pedagogy out there.
I wish you the very best.
Last edited:
THANK YOU!
Like several others here, I was not seeing a video or a link. Then, finally, I somehow managed to refresh the page so that I could see the still image in which one should be able to play the video — but every time I tried, the video playback failed. I was using Safari on my 2021 MacBook Pro (latest versions of the MacOS, Safari, and everything else). I do not (and will not) use Facebook or Chrome, so I was just reading through the comments here, hoping someone might provide a capsule description, but your direct link to the video worked like a charm. Many thanks.
The biggest way to get better as a person is to realize you have a problem or what you are doing. I feel Mr.Berlin a lot when he said he worked on it in therapy and regret it a lot. I had similar problems with passive-aggressiveness. It's why drivers are so bad, no one wants to admit their mistake or want ot fix it when they do something wrong on the road or in anything for that matter in life. Kudos to Jeff for wanting to fix it, I love his music, his work and I think he's a nice guy, his videos were extremely encouraging to learn sheet music which I have and to even make me look deeper into the classical world with upright bass. Also love his Jack Bruce stuff! All the best to him and cheers to him, I thought his video was great.
I always thought he was onto something important re: music pedagogy. I've watched way too many beginners (albeit in a school setting) get frustrated and not enjoy music when the music teacher is having them learn along with a ticking metronome, when they barely even know how to make the notes yet.
Sure everyone can be a better person but I never took his stuff personally. I'm sure he could be more polite but I'm also sure that a lot of music educators have things really wrong and are incapable of much self reflection or challenging of the orthodoxy.
I'm also sure Jeff is wrong about certain things, as am I. Humility is more important than politeness. I think the education and/or music community is often not so humble itself, and is a bit hypocritical pointing it out in Jeff like he is some scourge upon the community.
Sure everyone can be a better person but I never took his stuff personally. I'm sure he could be more polite but I'm also sure that a lot of music educators have things really wrong and are incapable of much self reflection or challenging of the orthodoxy.
I'm also sure Jeff is wrong about certain things, as am I. Humility is more important than politeness. I think the education and/or music community is often not so humble itself, and is a bit hypocritical pointing it out in Jeff like he is some scourge upon the community.
Last edited:
I'm not aware of all this soap opera between these great bass players but most of Jeff's points of view are valid, well constructed, necessary and thought provoking, IMHO.
It's always good to improve as a person (we're all flawed, after all) but, in this case, as someone unaware of many chapters of this soap opera, I'm not sure if he should apologise for defending his beliefs...
It's always good to improve as a person (we're all flawed, after all) but, in this case, as someone unaware of many chapters of this soap opera, I'm not sure if he should apologise for defending his beliefs...
Last edited:
No, sounds like this doesn't go far enough. More importantly, he needs to make it stick.
It seems narcissistic and this public self-outing seems a bit off. I believe a personal phone call to each person he feels he offended would be much more appropriate. Then again, I don't know anything about the guy but this doesn't make me want to delve deeper.
Well, Mr. Berlin, I am deeply touched by your apology. I see a man who has taken a long, hard look at his attitudes and actions and sees where he can offer amends and make improvements. It is inspiring to see you do so in such a public way. You clearly showed that displaying your regrets to those you impacted is more important than preserving your personal ego. That takes great humility. Thank you for that.
I doubt they would take his call.
- Status
