I think there was some discussion earlier on this page regarding having chord tone knowledge before using the chord studies book. I'm working through the book very slowly but one thing i'm finding is that because some exercises are so short, i only have to read through them a few times before i naturally memorize them, which means that it's easy to get into a "pattern rut" and forget the purpose of the exercises. So, i'm now forcing myself to notate the chord types in all inversions just to get the notes in my head without having to mentally refer to a fretboard to spell chords. The next step would be to get to a keyboard so i can familiarise myself with how the notated chords sound as a whole. There's no particular questions here just an observation that relates to "music first, bass second".
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Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed Part II
- Thread starter Mark Wilson
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Thanks for these comments. I have been a fiver for years and years, and have been considering going back to playing just a 4 string. I don't plan on selling my Sadowsky Modern 5, but I have been spending alot of time at GC playing the American series P's and J's.
It seems to me like a lot of people do get obsessed with gear, instead of music, I know I have been guilty of that. Also, most of my idols, mostly play 4 string, even Stanley and Victor.
NAMM just wrapped up for me. I'll let you all know about it when I have more time.
I just wanted to thank everybody for being so cool. I've been reading your comments and it seems that the couple of guys who were never here for musical reasons have finally gone away. I asked the moderator in some ridiculous form of slang if he had anything to do with it, but he might not have understood what I was talking about.
When a guy like me, with a reputation stands for something, some guys in total anonymity can use full blown passive agressive behavior to not merely disagree, but attack. Until this thread's moderator made a comment to one guy to behave, I never once had any support from any Talkbas moderator. So, I became curious because the "airwaves" seem to be totally civilized, peaceful, not-combative, and sharing of musical things. So I wondered if the moderator Mark had anything to do this this. But, I didn't hear back from him, maybe because there was nothing to report. The uptight guys sometimes never actually crossed that line, but found that delicate way of having at me, and sometimes you guys, with those crafted emblems
indicating your or my foolish stances and comments.But, things are quiet now, and YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES WHO MADE THIS HAPPEN, by sticking to music and being genuinely decent guys at the same times. The knuckleheads are gone, or at least they have shut up and I, for one, am pleased. Many thanks for claiming back this thread on the behalf of the seriously-into-music- musicians.
There are two dimished scales.
C D Eb F F# G# A B C
and
C Db D# E F# G A Bb C
I have to look at what I wrote back then because I even might be wrong on the spelling of these scales, but I don't think so. Anybody?????
The point of any educational investigation is to familiarize one with eternally perfect musical principles and represent them on your instrument. It really is that simple. The goal is to know a lot and be able to play a lot. This make playing your art WAY easier than not having a knowledgeable and functional ability of music and bass. Don't seek out the goal. Just learn the chordtone becuase you love music and you love bass and you want to know as much about both as you can.
here's a question for you. how do you know, when you're practicing something, when its time to move on? when i studied with charlie he threw so much at you in one week that you could literally spend months redoing it and getting it into your subconscious, but you had to finish in time for next week's lesson, which was even more stuff, sometimes related, but still new stuff to practice. i always got the assignments he gave me down well enough to record them for him, and i got them at a fast tempo like he asked me to do, but i really felt that one week or even two sometimes just wasnt enough to consider the lesson "absorbed".
Happy birthday Jeff!!! (that's if wikipedia's right
WOW! Thank you for remembering. I am 57 years old today and for my birthday present, I just go done playing almost non-stop for three days with Danny Gottlieb, and a bunch of killer musicians at NAMM. P.S. Hadrien Feraud is the fastest, most unbelievable bass player today. I can't even approach his phenomenal technique.
You are welcome! The four string bass is my baby. But today it might be a little bit overlooked in lieu of the 5 (the six isn't that popular and realoy doesn't have the importance as the 4 or 5).
If one keeps their basses simple then they don't have a lot of confusion, extra frets, more work to learn what I can learn on less strings. It just make sense to keep one;s instrument choices simple.
Hey Jeff! That was an interesting lesson.
How much detail am I permitted to post? Well, here's a bash at it...
First we played a jazz tune and did some work on soloing and walking. I'm now working on focusing on chord tones for soloing and playing nice and legato now when I solo on that tune. Trying to play a bit more relaxed, also.
The next part of the lesson was simple, but left lots to do after. A good Charlie Banacos exercise: a 'double mambo', I think you called it. Take two specific triads, mix them up over 4 bars in a strict predetermined fashion, write four lines per key, repeat in all 12 keys. Then play. Just finished writing all 48 lines on Saturday morning, but been playing them all week as I write them.
I presume the next step is to select a number of them (?12) and learn them in all 12 keys....guess I'll see you next week to chat it over though!
Happy Birthday Jeff!
Wish you can come to Taiwan for a REAL clinic gig, or wish I can go to Clearwater again...
Lee Jiang
Wish you can come to Taiwan for a REAL clinic gig, or wish I can go to Clearwater again...
Lee Jiang
Hey Jeff! That was an interesting lesson.
How much detail am I permitted to post? Well, here's a bash at it...
First we played a jazz tune and did some work on soloing and walking. I'm now working on focusing on chord tones for soloing and playing nice and legato now when I solo on that tune. Trying to play a bit more relaxed, also.
The next part of the lesson was simple, but left lots to do after. A good Charlie Banacos exercise: a 'double mambo', I think you called it. Take two specific triads, mix them up over 4 bars in a strict predetermined fashion, write four lines per key, repeat in all 12 keys. Then play. Just finished writing all 48 lines on Saturday morning, but been playing them all week as I write them.
I presume the next step is to select a number of them (?12) and learn them in all 12 keys....guess I'll see you next week to chat it over though!
I'm really curious about the triads and order.
happy birthday jeff!!
by the way, don't know if you or anybody can help with it
but i've resently been jamming with a rather interesting guitarist, and i had a ahrd time jammin with him because he used such odd chords that i am unable to identify, and he uses such unorthodox progressions so even if i gett he roots down he changes it up on me, at least its keeping me on my toes lol but i was wondering if you or anybody else for that matter would know of an interesting and fast way to identifying chord tones by ear?
by the way, don't know if you or anybody can help with it
but i've resently been jamming with a rather interesting guitarist, and i had a ahrd time jammin with him because he used such odd chords that i am unable to identify, and he uses such unorthodox progressions so even if i gett he roots down he changes it up on me, at least its keeping me on my toes lol but i was wondering if you or anybody else for that matter would know of an interesting and fast way to identifying chord tones by ear?
these both deal extensively with the subject. the bergonzi one goes into more paris while the weiskopf one just deals with one pair, but the exercises can be applied to any pair. the idea is to use 2 triads with no common tones. the most common pair are 2 majors a whole step apart ( Bb and C for example) but any 2 will work and give some interesting sounds. the books give some insight on how to fit them over changes. (im not saying that this is what jeff was teaching, but i know that these books are very similar to charlie's concept, although the process and step by step total immersion that charlie put you through was were the magic was)
http://www.amazon.com/Hexatonics-Inside-Improvisation-Jerry-Bergonzi/dp/B000FSS82E
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Intervallic-Improvisation-The-Modern-Sound/5141272
http://www.amazon.com/Hexatonics-Inside-Improvisation-Jerry-Bergonzi/dp/B000FSS82E
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/Intervallic-Improvisation-The-Modern-Sound/5141272
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Cool, I need to look into that, I've found some by accident (through chord substititions I've learned and using that in lines) and use the ideas, but never developed it as a concept further. As a person who likes to make life complicated (I am going to get Hexatonics) does it extend to approach notes or does it just stick to the triads?
Thanks again!
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It sounds as if Hexatonics may be the same as, or similar to, "Triad Pairs". There is a discussion on the TBDB side where John Goldsby (chop_1992) weighs in with a good lesson about the topic.
It's not presently in my study routine at the moment, but I have bookmarked it to come back to (I also acquired the Gary Campbell book in question on the thread).
Triad Pairs: a thread on the DB Forum
In the meantime, I am enjoying using the Chord Tone Studies Book as an addition to my Arco practice. It is working out to be a good reading/intonation exercise on DB.
It's not presently in my study routine at the moment, but I have bookmarked it to come back to (I also acquired the Gary Campbell book in question on the thread).
Triad Pairs: a thread on the DB Forum
In the meantime, I am enjoying using the Chord Tone Studies Book as an addition to my Arco practice. It is working out to be a good reading/intonation exercise on DB.
Jeff, when you are soloing over a piece that you've played regularly do you try to keep your improvisation different each time or do you find that similar thematic aspects creep in and become a regular part of that piece? I don't play jazz often but occasionally sub for a local group(who sadly have to provide background music in restaurants as their regular work) and i'm wondering if I'm putting too much pressure on myself to keep each solo totally fresh and new, although i do realise this will improve as i transcribe more stuff and increase my vocabularly.
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