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Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed
- Thread starter JeffBerlin
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Jeff,
When you find yourself in a situation where you are playing the same material for weeks on end, is there anything you do to keep it fresh for you?
Also - along those same lines - do you ever find yourself in a situation where you're playing material that's significantly less challenging than your are normally accustomed to - and if so, how do you approach keeping that interesting?
Of course it occurs to me that you may not take gigs that don't challenge or interest you, but if you do...
Finally - OT here - but I mentioned to a coworker/guitar player friend that you were in here sharing knowledge and he mentioned that he used to have an album of yours where you played an outstanding version of "Dixie" - and he cannot recall the name of that album. What album of yours was that?
When you find yourself in a situation where you are playing the same material for weeks on end, is there anything you do to keep it fresh for you?
Also - along those same lines - do you ever find yourself in a situation where you're playing material that's significantly less challenging than your are normally accustomed to - and if so, how do you approach keeping that interesting?
Of course it occurs to me that you may not take gigs that don't challenge or interest you, but if you do...
Finally - OT here - but I mentioned to a coworker/guitar player friend that you were in here sharing knowledge and he mentioned that he used to have an album of yours where you played an outstanding version of "Dixie" - and he cannot recall the name of that album. What album of yours was that?
Jeff's playing of "Dixie" is very easy to find on you tube. If you simply search for Jeff Berlin on youtube, it will bring up many editions of Dixie. It will also bring up some very 80's stuff that is well worth a looksee! There is a vid of Jeff and Jaco jamming together in '85 that is a must see-Jeff at the beginning of his career, and Jaco very close to the end.
tZer: When you find yourself in a situation where you are playing the same material for weeks on end, is there anything you do to keep it fresh for you?
Jeff: I'm lucky because of the type of musical style that I play. It is mostly aimed at improvizational music. Therefore, as long as i pay attention to the harmony and the feel of the tunes that I am playing, I have totally freedom to change things as long as I don't forget those two other things.
tZer: Also - along those same lines - do you ever find yourself in a situation where you're playing material that's significantly less challenging than your are normally accustomed to - and if so, how do you approach keeping that interesting?
Jeff: A gig is a gig and when you accept the work, then you must accept everything that goes with it. For this reason, if somebody pays me an insane amount of money to play simple stuff (which NEVER happens) then they will get what they paid for. Dennis Chambers, one of the most astonishing drummers in the world, plays some pretty pedestrian drum parts for Carlos Santana. But he is being paid very handsomely for this service. But, regardless of the amount that you are offered, if you take the gig, then do what is required and your rep will be solid and it wil spread as somebody who is reliable.
tZer: Finally - OT here - but I mentioned to a coworker/guitar player friend that you were in here sharing knowledge and he mentioned that he used to have an album of yours where you played an outstanding version of "Dixie" - and he cannot recall the name of that album. What album of yours was that?
Jeff: The album was called Champion, from 1985.
Jeff: I'm lucky because of the type of musical style that I play. It is mostly aimed at improvizational music. Therefore, as long as i pay attention to the harmony and the feel of the tunes that I am playing, I have totally freedom to change things as long as I don't forget those two other things.
tZer: Also - along those same lines - do you ever find yourself in a situation where you're playing material that's significantly less challenging than your are normally accustomed to - and if so, how do you approach keeping that interesting?
Jeff: A gig is a gig and when you accept the work, then you must accept everything that goes with it. For this reason, if somebody pays me an insane amount of money to play simple stuff (which NEVER happens) then they will get what they paid for. Dennis Chambers, one of the most astonishing drummers in the world, plays some pretty pedestrian drum parts for Carlos Santana. But he is being paid very handsomely for this service. But, regardless of the amount that you are offered, if you take the gig, then do what is required and your rep will be solid and it wil spread as somebody who is reliable.
tZer: Finally - OT here - but I mentioned to a coworker/guitar player friend that you were in here sharing knowledge and he mentioned that he used to have an album of yours where you played an outstanding version of "Dixie" - and he cannot recall the name of that album. What album of yours was that?
Jeff: The album was called Champion, from 1985.
Not that it matters but it was a 'he' and this was back in the early 70's. Last time I corresponded with Gary, he was still living and teaching in Ft Lauderdale.
FWIW, he taught me a lot more than how to play piano. He took time to loan me albums and teach me about classical music, which as a rock musician, was something I knew very little about.
Off to rehearsal.
Andy Laverne: http://www.bassplayer.com/story.aspx?id=98973&terms=metronome
Jeff Andrews: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Kai Eckhardt: Invalid Link Removed
John Goldsby: Invalid Link Removed
Beaver Felton: Link Removed
Dave LaRue: Invalid Link Removed (Thanks Jimmy).
Adam Nitti: http://www.adamnitti.com/patterns_two.shtml
Stu Hamm: http://www.stuarthamm.net/
Billy Sheehan: http://books.google.com/books?id=uw...resnum=4&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false (Exercise 4)
Dave Liebman: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Steve Gadd: http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/jan09/articles/techthat.htm
Mike Stern: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (last video).
John Scofield:
Hi Jeff,
For years I've had Chord Studies for Electric Bass, and I've learned from it but never got past the first few pages.
You've inspired me.. I'm finally working through the book. I'm wondering what approach you would suggest.
I've been taking one chord per day, and slowly reading through each exercise until I can play it "almost" in time correctly and smoothly. I'm not memorizing, and I'm not getting very facile or fast with any exercise before moving on.
I'm enjoying it and I feel like I'm learning. Is this the correct approach? Or should I be polishing each exercise more before moving on?
Also, do you know any teachers you might recommend in the LA area?
For years I've had Chord Studies for Electric Bass, and I've learned from it but never got past the first few pages.
You've inspired me.. I'm finally working through the book. I'm wondering what approach you would suggest.
I've been taking one chord per day, and slowly reading through each exercise until I can play it "almost" in time correctly and smoothly. I'm not memorizing, and I'm not getting very facile or fast with any exercise before moving on.
I'm enjoying it and I feel like I'm learning. Is this the correct approach? Or should I be polishing each exercise more before moving on?
Also, do you know any teachers you might recommend in the LA area?
Jeff, sometimes STAR and RATS do mean the same thing! At least with some of the acts I've played with!
LOL This is totally funny.................for real!
Sly
Hi Jeff,
I don't see using key center or a one scale over a whole song cheating at all. Most great melodies in Jazz are based on it. Do you think they cheated by doing so? No.
I think that using a one scale only thru a whole tune makes me and other musicians (including students) aware of the power of the melodies. You don't have to run up and down the scale......I hate that. But by playing longer notes like whole notes and half notes all thru with the key center scale is a great way lo learn the power of every note. Plus, it helps to construct phrases,which is something lacking big time most of the time when people are trying to improvise.
What I want to say is that I understand all your meanings by saying what you are saying but unfortunately having a virtual discussion is not the same as been in a classroom with you making your points in a more obvious way.
Just for the record, having these discussions with you this week was really interesting and I'm always learning something new either from a great musician like you or a student. When I was in my classroom this week at university for my private lessons I did apply a little bit of non-metronome strategy for some students who weren't able to play certain passages in their pieces for the end of semester exam and it did work well most of the time in that specific situation.
When they had it down I putted the click right away in though
.
So the bottom line is that I learned few things along the way here and I sincerly hope you do too,
Best regards Jeff,
Sly
I don't see using key center or a one scale over a whole song cheating at all. Most great melodies in Jazz are based on it. Do you think they cheated by doing so? No.
I think that using a one scale only thru a whole tune makes me and other musicians (including students) aware of the power of the melodies. You don't have to run up and down the scale......I hate that. But by playing longer notes like whole notes and half notes all thru with the key center scale is a great way lo learn the power of every note. Plus, it helps to construct phrases,which is something lacking big time most of the time when people are trying to improvise.
What I want to say is that I understand all your meanings by saying what you are saying but unfortunately having a virtual discussion is not the same as been in a classroom with you making your points in a more obvious way.
Just for the record, having these discussions with you this week was really interesting and I'm always learning something new either from a great musician like you or a student. When I was in my classroom this week at university for my private lessons I did apply a little bit of non-metronome strategy for some students who weren't able to play certain passages in their pieces for the end of semester exam and it did work well most of the time in that specific situation.
When they had it down I putted the click right away in though
.So the bottom line is that I learned few things along the way here and I sincerly hope you do too,
Best regards Jeff,
Sly
I am obviously not a famous bassist. As a kid, I practiced my classical lessons without a metronome. But I played in the school band, under a conductor, and when I got an electric bass, I played along to records and the radio.
So, did I practice to a metronome, or didn't I?
So, did I practice to a metronome, or didn't I?
May be there was certain songs that were played with a click so you kind of did play with a very solid track that relied on it !!!
Roy Vogt
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- Sep 20, 2000
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- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
OK, so an update in my progress with Jeff's methods. This is on the teaching front, as I've had my typical 12 hour marathon of bass lessons and Bass Ensemble. I'm not sure how much practice time I'll be able to log tonight, but I have a new Carvin Sekou Bunch 5 string (thanks to Richard Cruz-Thanks, Richard!) waiting for me so I'll probably work on something
One of my students is working on Charlie Parker's solo on Now's the Time and having a problem with phrasing and counting. We ended up working the solo in 4 bar phrases a piece at a time with no click and speeding up the tempo with no click. At the end of his 30 minute lesson the student was able to play the head and 8 bars of the first chorus at tempo with the Jamey Aebersold All Bird CD track. He's totally encouraged and is planning on having the ENTIRE solo for his Electric Bass Jury in 2 weeks.
I then worked on the transcription for "Sex in a Pan" from Vic's book with another student, so I was working on a Slap Line (and a rather sophisticated one at that). We put together the slap line 2/3 of the way through one note and movement at a time and then played the combinations down with no click. He's already got most of the palm muted sections so he was able to play this at nearly the speed on UFO Tofu. This is interesting, it seems to work on all levels. These are good college bassists, but they're only Sophomores in their third semester of private lessons so they're not my most advanced students. This really seems to be a dramatic speed learning device-ironically by slowing down.
One of my students is working on Charlie Parker's solo on Now's the Time and having a problem with phrasing and counting. We ended up working the solo in 4 bar phrases a piece at a time with no click and speeding up the tempo with no click. At the end of his 30 minute lesson the student was able to play the head and 8 bars of the first chorus at tempo with the Jamey Aebersold All Bird CD track. He's totally encouraged and is planning on having the ENTIRE solo for his Electric Bass Jury in 2 weeks.
I then worked on the transcription for "Sex in a Pan" from Vic's book with another student, so I was working on a Slap Line (and a rather sophisticated one at that). We put together the slap line 2/3 of the way through one note and movement at a time and then played the combinations down with no click. He's already got most of the palm muted sections so he was able to play this at nearly the speed on UFO Tofu. This is interesting, it seems to work on all levels. These are good college bassists, but they're only Sophomores in their third semester of private lessons so they're not my most advanced students. This really seems to be a dramatic speed learning device-ironically by slowing down.
Chances are most of them were played with accurate enough time that it would not have mattered. The point is that I was playing to an effective time standard.
Hi Jeff
You have said that you don't think that metronomes are bad but the way that people use them is a waste of time (no pun intended). Is there anything that metronomes are good for in the study of our instrument?
You have said that you don't think that metronomes are bad but the way that people use them is a waste of time (no pun intended). Is there anything that metronomes are good for in the study of our instrument?
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
- 4,433
- 537
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
In one of my favorite pieces of advice, David Hungate said (in his typical dry wit) "the best way to develop good time is to play with people with good time, but since they won't let you the next best thing is to play with the records they are on."
This is totally OT, but this Sekou Bunch 5 string smokes! Yow!
In a sense, by playing with recordings, you are forced to keep up with them This is called performance. Before you can perform, you have to learn WHAT to perform. Built into the learning of notes, phrases, interpretation via dynamics and method of plucking the strings is a thing called TIME. It is there, but it can only be harnessed when you've learned the material first and foremost. No metronome can teach you time. it can only insist that you keep up with the tempo that it provides.
Try one chord a week, or one chord every several days. Those etudes aren't easy.
There was a really good teacher in L.A. named Tim Emmons. I'm not sure where he is these days as we haven't been in touch in a while. But he's a great guy and, as I remember, he really know what and how to teach.
Long ago I used a metronome to when I practiced. When it was successful, I used it to help me subdivide beats and think in 16th notes. (it's the old kind with the swinging weight). It was even more helpful at super slow tempos, when I wanted to go faster. The metronome held me accountable to not speeding up. I was forced to hear the fullness of the note when I practiced difficult things.
Now, this was AFTER I had worked through a piece to have fingerings in place. AFTER I had worked through the theory of a given piece. During the developmental stage of learning a piece I didn't use a metronome at all.
Basically, I sit squarely in the middle on the metronome issue. When used in certain practice situations it can aid you, and when in other situations it can make you a slave to playing repetitiously without thinking about what you are actually practicing...
Like many things in education, the value in the tool is in the wisdom of its use.
Now, this was AFTER I had worked through a piece to have fingerings in place. AFTER I had worked through the theory of a given piece. During the developmental stage of learning a piece I didn't use a metronome at all.
Basically, I sit squarely in the middle on the metronome issue. When used in certain practice situations it can aid you, and when in other situations it can make you a slave to playing repetitiously without thinking about what you are actually practicing...
Like many things in education, the value in the tool is in the wisdom of its use.
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