JGR's 1200 watt micro - let the madness begin!!!!!

[3rdcurve]

I so want to hear that thing through my MAS112...........

 

[MarkA]

I so want to hear that thing through my MAS112...........

If it sounds like the Box o' Tone + poweramp into the 112, that's a nice match -- of course, I only tried it solo in Mike A's living room, but they had a nice synergy to my ear.

Jonathan, when you've had some time with the amp and are rested enough to type, I'd be curious to hear what you think the similarities and differences are between this amp and the BoT/poweramp combo. Curious, too, about your thoughts on and approach to managing subsonics.

 

[JGR]

I've spent the last ten hours or so chasing down some ground hum which I still haven't found - it's not bad, but it's annoying. The upside is that along the way I've inadvertently made some great improvements and this thing sounds absolutely stellar. The EQ is turning out wonderfully - very powerful and super musical sounding - it's hard to make it sound bad even though it is quite powerful. Voicing is similar to the BoT but its a bit crisper and faster. Some of that is from the higher voltages that I can get when I have more space to use larger trannies (the BoT is still high in it's own regard).

I get asked a lot about HPFs and my feeling is that if an amp/preamp is voiced properly, you shouldn't need any external filtering. The challenge for the designer is to keep things tight while still sounding full. I always play at really high volumes so I think that helps - if things are bloated in the bottom (which can sound impressive at low/demo volumes) it shows up real quick.

 

[David Jayne]

Oh geeze. Holey ****.

 

[monsterthompson]

Not to derail too far for this issue, but do you have any impressions of the 1,200w rating for a micro vs a big iron and tube rig? How does it compare/contrast on issues like headroom, dynamics, and volume?

For example, I've got a 900w Genz Shuttle, which is lovely, though I think my 200w Buster probably still manhandles it in terms of output and punch, and has a pretty crystal headroom.

I'm wondering if the big number of 1,200 watts, or even some other feature of the power section really roars. I'm sure it does. So, I guess I'm asking what it feels like to drive it. Does it have lots of torque or hp, is it fast off the line, does it corner well?


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

 

[JGR]

Not to derail too far for this issue, but do you have any impressions of the 1,200w rating for a micro vs a big iron and tube rig? How does it compare/contrast on issues like headroom, dynamics, and volume?

For example, I've got a 900w Genz Shuttle, which is lovely, though I think my 200w Buster probably still manhandles it in terms of output and punch, and has a pretty crystal headroom.

I'm wondering if the big number of 1,200 watts, or even some other feature of the power section really roars. I'm sure it does. So, I guess I'm asking what it feels like to drive it. Does it have lots of torque or hp, is it fast off the line, does it corner well?


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

Now that it's up and running, I'll do another side by side but it seems on par with my PLX3602 which IIRC is also 1200 into four ohms (each side). Seems just as solid in the low end.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I've compared it to amps using the800 watt ice module.Demeter,gk,tecamp It's pretty much no comparison.the1200 watt ice has more powerful controlled lows, more open highs and noticeably better headroom. First class D amp that I feel confident in recommending against any class ab amp.

 

[JGR]

Alright, got it all sorted! Shot a couple of videos, first one is long but shows a wide range of tones and EQ. Second one is grindy rock just to show it can do it, and do it well, even though it leans way more to the clean side of things. This bad boy really thumps through my NV412!

Overview (long)


Rock

 

[Foz]

Awesome.

 

[Munjibunga]

Cool beans.

 

[Jeff Moote]

Awesome

 

[monsterthompson]

Alright, got it all sorted! Shot a couple of videos, first one is long but shows a wide range of tones and EQ. Second one is grindy rock just to show it can do it, and do it well, even though it leans way more to the clean side of things. This bad boy really thumps through my NV412!

Overview (long)


Rock

so nice to hear a demo which doesn't include endless slap wank. amp sounds nice. a darn shame i can't walk down to the store and grab one off the shelf.

 

[Matt Morgan]

Holy crap. WANT ONE.

 

[Rapisme]

Whew!

 

[tombowlus]

Not to derail too far for this issue, but do you have any impressions of the 1,200w rating for a micro vs a big iron and tube rig? How does it compare/contrast on issues like headroom, dynamics, and volume?

For example, I've got a 900w Genz Shuttle, which is lovely, though I think my 200w Buster probably still manhandles it in terms of output and punch, and has a pretty crystal headroom.

I'm wondering if the big number of 1,200 watts, or even some other feature of the power section really roars. I'm sure it does. So, I guess I'm asking what it feels like to drive it. Does it have lots of torque or hp, is it fast off the line, does it corner well?


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

IME/IMHO, the Genz-Benz heads - while technological marvels in their own right - are not the best measuring stick when it comes to maximum real world output from a class-D head. GK, TecAmp, Markbass, Glockenklang, Orange are better yardsticks (in regard to output), IME/IMHO.

 

[Stevorebob]

Awesome. But you knew that.

 

[JGR]

IME/IMHO, the Genz-Benz heads - while technological marvels in their own right - are not the best measuring stick when it comes to maximum real world output from a class-D head. GK, TecAmp, Markbass, Glockenklang, Orange are better yardsticks (in regard to output), IME/IMHO.

Yup, and I'm not trying to push a smaller module to higher levels at the expense of noise/distortion/headroom/stability. This one is rated 1175 at 1% THD. It's stout, and it clips very gracefully. It also has enough reserve to power two additional hanger modules, so it's coasting on it's own. I'm sure I could disable the soft clip and push it to higher levels but that's not an approach I want to take.

This amp is 1200 real watts and weighs in at 13.1 pounds using full size, top quality components and hardware, and a hand-wired turret board tube preamp. One of the most powerful standalone amps period, and not too shabby in the weight/footprint category if I do say so!

 

[tombowlus]

Yup, and I'm not trying to push a smaller module to higher levels at the expense of noise/distortion/headroom/stability. This one is rated 1175 at 1% THD. It's stout, and it clips very gracefully. I'm sure I could disable the soft clip and push it to higher levels but that's not an approach I want to take.

This amp is 1200 real watts and weighs in at 13.1 pounds using full size, top quality components and hardware. One of the most powerful standalone amps period, and not too shabby in the weight/footprint category if I do say so!

Nice. I always felt that the 1,000-watt ICEpower module used in the Bergantino IP cabs really delivered, so this is no surprise.

 

[monsterthompson]

IME/IMHO, the Genz-Benz heads - while technological marvels in their own right - are not the best measuring stick when it comes to maximum real world output from a class-D head. GK, TecAmp, Markbass, Glockenklang, Orange are better yardsticks (in regard to output), IME/IMHO.

Your experience is certainly greater than mine. I just know that through the same 8 ohm PH115, my Mesa M6 (320w) felt and performed similar to the 200w Buster, but the 165w Walkabout paled in comparison. My bridged Crown XLS1000 was 700w bridged and was somewhere in the middle in terms of feeling powerful. I never really pushed my Jag900 or Puma 900 through the same cab.

The only thing that ramble really says is that wattage and topology aren't consistent measuring sticks for performance, though my experience (YMMV) is that the boat anchors had more guts. I know others have made similar internet claims. Hence my question, above.


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

 

[tombowlus]

Your experience is certainly greater than mine. I just know that through the same 8 ohm PH115, my Mesa M6 (320w) felt and performed similar to the 200w Buster, but the 165w Walkabout paled in comparison. My bridged Crown XLS1000 was 700w bridged and was somewhere in the middle in terms of feeling powerful. I never really pushed my Jag900 or Puma 900 through the same cab.

The only thing that ramble really says is that wattage and topology aren't consistent measuring sticks for performance, though my experience (YMMV) is that the boat anchors had more guts. I know others have made similar internet claims. Hence my question, above.


"Comparison is the thief of joy."
- Theodore Roosevelt

You are absolutely correct that wattage and topology most certainly don't tell the whole story. It's also interesting to note how different amplifier topologies produce power and handle bursts somewhat differently. Did you check out Link Removed?

And of course, different designs (with different trade-offs, tweaks, etc) within the same topology will also make a big difference.