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JULE Amps M 2500:: 2500w/3200w(peak) Amplifier

#141
Charlie and I agree pretty well on this, "safe" is a relative term in that it relies on the common sense, as well as the reasonable expectations of the user.

If you were to drive the amp to the point of clipping (or rated power) routinely, I would expect there to be a significant accumulation of structural damage to the suspension components that would accelerate the aging of the driver. So, if you were to look at an excursion versus lifespan curve for the driver (general example, not specific to this driver), you might find a typical lifespan of 10,000 hours when the driver is driven to its "RMS" rating but 1/2 that lifespan when driven to 150% of RMS and maybe 1/4 of the lifespan when driven to 200% of the "RMS" rating and maybe only 1/10th (or possibly much less) when driven to 300% of its "RMS" rating.

These are the kinds of things that we, as engineers, analyze when developing products that carry warranties... the longer and more comprehensive the warranty the more important we understand the factors that might affect real world lifespan.

Everybody has their own ideas on reliability metrics, but ultimately it's in the best interest of a responsible company to understand the mechanisms that have the potential to bite them in the ass when it comes to honoring a comprehensive warranty, and to warn customers about what might not be in their best long term interests when it comes to longevity.
 
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#143
read the Hypex data sheet. Curious to know why the module would be rated for 1600w @ 8 ohms, 2500w @ 4ohms .. but just 2000w @ 2ohms ?
I am not an engineer, but would expect more output at 2 ohms. Is there some built in "braking" mechanism of some kind in this Hypex module ?
 
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#145
BurningSkies said:
At this point, I don't think most care about the 'micro' but light certainly plays well with a lot of us. I use a double fEARful with my setup, but I know guys who have double 1515/66's and such. IIRC this also can comfortably run down to 2 ohms, so you could run 3x 4 ohm rigs should you need. I can't imagine that too many would need, but that's a lot of clean volume and headroom.

In terms of price, this seems to fit the ballpark of what Jule and many small boutique builders are doing. Low quantity hand built amps are not cheap. The M700 goes for $1375...I don't see anyone out there who's bought one (and a bunch of people have them) complaining about the price or what it can do. I would assume that the performance per dollar would still be commensurate.
Click to expand...
BurningSkies - I understand from your other posts you are running pretty big power into multiple fEARful cabs (2 x 15/6's) on stage and are playing mostly Reggae/Dub/Dancehall stuff (?) so, lots of deep bass. Do you run into FOH issues with that much stage volume for your bass. Other the highpassing, how do you balance that much juice with the overall band sound.
not a challenge, I am genuinely curious about this.
thanks
 
#147
pfschim said:
read the Hypex data sheet. Curious to know why the module would be rated for 1600w @ 8 ohms, 2500w @ 4ohms .. but just 2000w @ 2ohms ?
I am not an engineer, but would expect more output at 2 ohms. Is there some built in "braking" mechanism of some kind in this Hypex module ?
Click to expand...

It's probably done for safety/thermal protection. Other amps do the same. I think the Mesa D-800 is 600 watts at 2 ohms instead of 800 @ 4. Disclaimer: I am NOT an engineer, nor did I sleep in a bedbug infested motel last night.
 
#148
Laklandfan said:
Nope, a single channel at ~725 watts at 8 ohm/~1200 watts at 4 ohm has been sufficient. So I'd love equivalent performance built into the chassis of my monique so I shrink my rack and make less unwieldy.
Click to expand...

Roger that. Getting another matching cab (at least) and shrinking your amp format is the best realistic play, IMHO. If you end up gigging just one cab sometimes take extra precautions to prevent those factors Andy just mentioned from biting you. Or maybe work on Jule to do something with two bridged 700 watt modules, but it could well be that the M2500 has compelling advantages from Jule's standpoint. The so-called "supercabs" have kind of spun off a certain niche market for amplification that's a bit tricky to address "just so" in terms of practical engineering approaches, IMO. Mo' cabs are typically mo' bettah, but it sure is tempting to try to get all we can out of a single one.
 
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#149
Passinwind said:
Roger that. Getting another matching cab (at least) and shrinking your amp format is the best realistic play, IMHO. If you end up gigging just one cab sometimes take extra precautions to prevent those factors Andy just mentioned from biting you. Or maybe work on Jule to do something with two bridged 700 watt modules, but it could well be that the M2500 has compelling advantages form Jule's standpoint. The so-called "supercabs" have kind of spun off a certain niche market for amplification that's a bit tricky to address "just so" in terms of practical engineering approaches, IMO. Mo' cabs are typically mo' bettah, but it sure is tempting to try to get all we can out of a single one.
Click to expand...
I'm definitely about going bigger on the cab front, now just considering options for power. Shrinking the amp section of the rig, would help with fitting everything into the car.
 
#150
ahc said:
It's probably done for safety/thermal protection. Other amps do the same. I think the Mesa D-800 is 600 watts at 2 ohms instead of 800 @ 4. Disclaimer: I am NOT an engineer, nor did I sleep in a bedbug infested motel last night.
Click to expand...
Not correct, the D-800 is 800 watts "RMS" at either 4 ohms or 2 ohms (with the impedance switch set in the appropriate position)

Engineers design solutions that suit their own personal and technical needs, the power levels can be set during the design at whatever is necessary to achieve the engineer's desired results.
 
#151
agedhorse said:
Not correct, the D-800 is 800 watts "RMS" at either 4 ohms or 2 ohms (with the impedance switch set in the appropriate position)

Engineers design solutions that suit their own personal and technical needs, the power levels can be set during the design at whatever is necessary to achieve the engineer's desired results.
Click to expand...

My apologies Mr. Horse. I thought I had read that in the Mesa Subway megathread. Maybe I should have stayed in the roach motel last night!!
 
#152
ahc said:
My apologies Mr. Horse. I thought I had read that in the Mesa Subway megathread. Maybe I should have stayed in the roach motel last night!!
Click to expand...
What you might have read is the additional feature that allows the amp to deliver ~600 watts "RMS" at 4 ohms with the impedance switch set to the 2 ohm position. This is particularly handy for players that have lower rated cabinets that the would like to use more safely with the amp.
 
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#153
agedhorse said:
Not correct, the D-800 is 800 watts "RMS" at either 4 ohms or 2 ohms (with the impedance switch set in the appropriate position)

Engineers design solutions that suit their own personal and technical needs, the power levels can be set during the design at whatever is necessary to achieve the engineer's desired results.
Click to expand...
agedhorse - my question has more to do with understanding why the Hypex module in question would be LESS wattage output at 2 ohms than 4.
what little I know about amp/electrical engineering (most of which I have gained here on TB from folks like yourself) would suggest that the output goes up as the resistance goes down .. but again, I am not an engineer. Its just curiosity on my part as I have no possible need for this amount (2kw +) of output power. I am barely using the 800w my Demeter minie800/VTBP-M-800D delivers now.
 
#154
agedhorse said:
What you might have read is the additional feature that allows the amp to deliver ~600 watts "RMS" at 4 ohms with the impedance switch set to the 2 ohm position. This is particularly handy for players that have lower rated cabinets that the would like to use more safely with the amp.
Click to expand...

Bingo!!! That's what I read and didn't (accurately) remember.
 
#157
pfschim said:
agedhorse - my question has more to do with understanding why the Hypex module in question would be LESS wattage output at 2 ohms than 4.
what little I know about amp/electrical engineering (most of which I have gained here on TB from folks like yourself) would suggest that the output goes up as the resistance goes down .. but again, I am not an engineer. Its just curiosity on my part as I have no possible need for this amount (2kw +) of output power. I am barely using the 800w my Demeter minie800/VTBP-M-800D delivers now.
Click to expand...
(General comments, not attempting to be specific to any product or module or design, but specifically addresses this in class D or non-linear amplifiers)

Real power is comprised of the product of voltage and current, times the cosine of the phase angle between the voltage and current. Because of this, there are several ways to control both real power as well as apparent power, we can limit the absolute value of the voltage or the current, or we can limit the voltage and current based on the mathematical relationship between the phase angle of voltage and current. Each of these methods can be done statically or dynamically, and all have merits based on the specific goals of the designer. In fact, voltage and current can be traded of against each other in order to artificially create a static power limit that is (within reason) independent of the voltage or current alone.

Without realizing that this kind of processing can be done, it would appear that ohm's alone would suffice but in the world of non-linear processing variables can be adjusted independently though overall ohm's law does still apply, just that the variables are not what they initially appear.
 
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#158
pfschim said:
BurningSkies - I understand from your other posts you are running pretty big power into multiple fEARful cabs (2 x 15/6's) on stage and are playing mostly Reggae/Dub/Dancehall stuff (?) so, lots of deep bass. Do you run into FOH issues with that much stage volume for your bass. Other the highpassing, how do you balance that much juice with the overall band sound.
not a challenge, I am genuinely curious about this.
thanks
Click to expand...

I am. Not quite Jule's 2500w, but I'm running an Peavey IPR2-3000-DSP for a power amp with my Monique. My general 'startup setting' is to boost the bass on Mo' to about 2 o'clock, roll off the high about 90% of the way down and the mid sits somewhere between 10 o'clock and noon. Then I tweak from there for the room.

I haven't had any real room trouble in competition with FOH, probably due to the bass tone being so even and coherent out front. I always think that what gets a lot of 'loud' players in trouble is that their amps/cabs can't really reproduce what they think they're reproducing. Mine remains so clear and goes so low at volume that it really blends well with FOH and seems to stop any complaints from happening. Often times it's more 'together' out front than what's coming from the PA.

It probably also helps that I'm playing a bass-centric form of music and my bandmates actually enjoy loud bass on stage. I'm also doing pretty much what a soundman would do (at least one who knows) and not presenting anything below about 35hz., so I'm not making a wash in the room, and usually the kick is pushed by the subs. When we're playing places without a really full PA, the band is very used to balancing our volumes on stage for a good room mix. I'm not afraid to turn down or up in accordance to what the person we have 'walk the room' gives us as feedback.
 
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