JULE Amps M 2500:: 2500w/3200w(peak) Amplifier

[primusfan1989]

Is your complaint about the price or the validity of the wattage claims?

I never complained, again you're putting words in my mouth. My OP questioned the authenticity of the claim of power now after seeing some specs I'm less weary about the claim. I still have a hang up on the price but I'm not gonna go down that road seeing as there is no point.
I understand you're friends with the guy who builds these things, and you need to understand I could care less. He's a boutique builder and like other boutique builders the bar has been set higher than what comes out of a manufacturing plant. If you're product is better than the other guys offer some proof.
You sir need to stop taking things that have nothing to do with you so personally

 

[J.Wolf]

I'm very clear that you could care less. My first indication was that you were overtly questioning someones motives (he's an acquaintance, not a close friend, I just like to stick up for people who are being cast in negative light for no good reason).

I take what is said on this forum about people seroiusly, because it has more of an effect than you just musing around online. Peoples reputations are at stake when you posit this kind of thing, and unless you have some sort of proof or even reasonable suspicion that someone is fudging numbers, you better have something to back it up, whether I know them or not.

Call it online QC, or just accuse me of taking it personally. Whichever fits your narrative better.

 

[interp]

I think you are misunderstanding how the speaker is rated... The LF driver is a KappaLite 3012LF which is rated by the manufacturer at 450 watts "RMS". The mid and/or HF driver do not contribute significantly to this number. There is an artificial "program power" rating that is used by the industry as an attempt to represent the additional 3dB specified crest factor in the continuous power test (which only requires that the driver survives for 2 hours by the way), and the program power is defined as 2x the "RMS" (also called continuous power) rating.

The reason I bring this up is that it's clear from your comment of 900 watts being "conservative" that you do not understand how this number is derived, and that you need to compare the power rating of the speaker and the power rating of the amp based on the same units of measure.

So, assuming the amp is rated at 2500 watts RMS at 4 Ohm's, you need to compare the speaker using the same units. Therefore, 2 of the F112's wound be rated at 900 watts ("RMS", 4 ohm load) connected to an amp that is rated at 2500 watts "RMS" into the same 4 ohm load which represents a matching that I would be very cautious of. Even assuming the drivers can withstand an additional 3dB of crest factor (2x the "RMS power, IME that's beyond their mechanical power handling, and I'm very familiar with this driver), that would mean that the drivers could handle only 1800 watts whereas the amp can deliver 2500 watts. I don't see how the word "conservative" can be used to describe this situation.

I went through this math because I have seen a fair amount of misunderstanding over power handling between dissimilar power rating methods, as well as the damaged drivers that can result from such misunderstandings.

You are right that I used the word 'conservatively' carelessly and without any technical basis. My bad. However, my point was that I have been playing these speakers for over a year in very demanding situations and have yet to hear them break a sweat.
I will admit to being relatively unschooled in these matter from a technical standpoint; I only have 48 years of experience running all sorts of amps through all sorts of drivers in performance situations and as I said in an earlier post, I have never damaged a driver. I am not worried about doing so with the M2500, unless you can tell me that the M2500 will be delivering 2500 watts to a 4-ohm load no matter where the volume is set on the amp.

I am sincerely interested in being enlightened about this.

 

[peterpalmieri]

I never complained, again you're putting words in my mouth. My OP questioned the authenticity of the claim of power now after seeing some specs I'm less weary about the claim. I still have a hang up on the price but I'm not gonna go down that road seeing as there is no point.
I understand you're friends with the guy who builds these things, and you need to understand I could care less. He's a boutique builder and like other boutique builders the bar has been set higher than what comes out of a manufacturing plant. If you're product is better than the other guys offer some proof.
You sir need to stop taking things that have nothing to do with you so personally

It's funny before I owned a Monique preamp by Jule, I was invited to the home of another TB member to try out some of his gear. I did end up buying one for myself. After adding the M700, I got together with that same gentleman so he could try out the M700 with his gear. I've got a lot of stories from TB where I've met and became friendly with guys locally under similar circumstances. I've also had plenty of time where I got together and someone tried a bass or an amp and said glad I didn't pull the trigger, I'm not loving it. It's a much more civil approach then coming in with gun blazing accusations about snake oil.

Because of the way you approached this, I'm guessing nobody has PM'd you yet and said "hey I'm local come by and check out my M2500 and see what you think". I've got this really nice network of bass players that you don't see on the surface of the TB forum. Guys I can call or text for advice, borrow or lend gear for a special event, I've even subb'd gigs or just brainstormed about what might scratch the current itch.

If you imagined your comments to be a direct conversation with the person you are talking about rather then some nebulous internet post you'd realize Jule doesn't deserve to be called a snake oil salesman or insinuated that he is ripping people off with overly expensive unproven gear. And certainly after seeing the Hypex specs, you could be a gentleman and admit you over reacted and offer an apology. I'm guessing you are unwilling or incapable, that being said you can see I'm not far away and while I am seriously "weary" I've got an M700 not M2500 that you are welcome to try and report back on. I've also got something on your gas list that you may wish to try...(insert olive branch emoji here)

 

[primusfan1989]

It's funny before I owned a Monique preamp by Jule, I was invited to the home of another TB member to try out some of his gear. I did end up buying one for myself. After adding the M700, I got together with that same gentleman so he could try out the M700 with his gear. I've got a lot of stories from TB where I've met and became friendly with guys locally under similar circumstances. I've also had plenty of time where I got together and someone tried a bass or an amp and said glad I didn't pull the trigger, I'm not loving it. It's a much more civil approach then coming in with gun blazing accusations about snake oil.

Because of the way you approached this, I'm guessing nobody has PM'd you yet and said "hey I'm local come by and check out my M2500 and see what you think". I've got this really nice network of bass players that you don't see on the surface of the TB forum. Guys I can call or text for advice, borrow or lend gear for a special event, I've even subb'd gigs or just brainstormed about what might scratch the current itch.

If you imagined your comments to be a direct conversation with the person you are talking about rather then some nebulous internet post you'd realize Jule doesn't deserve to be called a snake oil salesman or insinuated that he is ripping people off with overly expensive unproven gear. And certainly after seeing the Hypex specs, you could be a gentleman and admit you over reacted and offer an apology. I'm guessing you are unwilling or incapable, that being said you can see I'm not far away and while I am seriously "weary" I've got an M700 not M2500 that you are welcome to try and report back on. I've also got something on your gas list that you may wish to try...(insert olive branch emoji here)

I appreciate the offer but Im quite happy with my QSC and i have a pre a friend built for me that has given me quite a biased opinion(tube pun) , and I want to repeat myself in saying my intention is not to offend, particularly Jules. Im skeptical about a lot of things, digital amps is just one of them. There are a lot of manufactures out there that are very dishonest in reference to their products and service and I base my opinions on a lot more than talkbass testimonials. And the only thing backing up that amp when i initially entered the conversation was "well he's a really respected builder around here". Ive said it several times now that i don't take things at face value and thats pretty much all there was until somebody dug up the spec sheet for the board he's using in his amp.
My only apology is to this Jules guy(if he reads this), don't know you, don't know your products, didn't mean to call you a snake oil salesman, Im sure you're an honest businessman and make very fine products

 

[Laklandfan]

Any likelihood of something between the m700 and the m2500? I can't imagine ever having cabinets that could handle 2500 watts.

 

[J.Wolf]

Crest CA9's are 2000w bridged at 4ohms. They've been around for ages, and considered by many to be the gold standard for bass power amps. I know a handful of guys who use them safely (including myself back in the day), and have nothing to report except fabulous tone and headroom for days.

Just to put the wattage thing in perspective, re: is it overkill, and is it safe?

 

[agedhorse]

You are right that I used the word 'conservatively' carelessly and without any technical basis. My bad. However, my point was that I have been playing these speakers for over a year in very demanding situations and have yet to hear them break a sweat.
I will admit to being relatively unschooled in these matter from a technical standpoint; I only have 48 years of experience running all sorts of amps through all sorts of drivers in performance situations and as I said in an earlier post, I have never damaged a driver. I am not worried about doing so with the M2500, unless you can tell me that the M2500 will be delivering 2500 watts to a 4-ohm load no matter where the volume is set on the amp.

I am sincerely interested in being enlightened about this.

This reply is for you and J.Wolf, since neither of you have offered any suggestion that good common sense is necessary with such power levels into this type of speaker...

You are not the only one reading the forums, so your comments might suggest to others here that it's ok to bang away on the rig because "no worries, the speakers are rated conservatively" whereas in reality that's not really the case (as I illustrated). As long as you are careful to avoid lapses in good judgement and unanticipated sonic "accidents", there's no problem with the surplus of power. That is NOT the case for many players, and the repair industry is kept busy rectifying such damage.

There are folks here who are trying to learn about what might go into stepping up with such a large amp (relative to the speaker capacity), so it's with good nature that we help with good, complete information.

[edited]

 

[J.Wolf]

I'm not sure whats inaccurate about saying that the CA9 is considered by many to be the gold standard of bass power amps. it is factually accurate, according to several well respected members of TB, not to mention at least a couple cab builders...


And. Nobody here said "yeah, get that 2500w amp and dime it bro". The concerns of running high powered amps seem pretty well represented on this board. If someone takes the lead from one comment in one thread and doesnt look at the larger bank of info available on the subject on TB, not sure I feel comfortable being blamed for that lack of research.

I run a CA6 and a 1000ASP into any number of cabs, including single 110's. 'Common sense' is having realistic expectations of what a cab can do, regardless of the amount of power you're dumping into it.

 

[J.Wolf]

(Your sarcastic comments have not gone unnoticed by the way, and are not appreciated)

What are you trying to say?

 

[agedhorse]

What are you trying to say?

Sorry, not your comments.

Also, common sense is nowhere near as common as you might think. I see the end result of what some folks THINK is common sense, because they just don't know)

 

[devnulljp]

And now the speakers you'll need to go with it

Can you imaging what John Entwhistle would have done if that amp had been available? A wall of them and a wall of 8x10s to match. All of the baby boomers would be deaf.

 

[BurningSkies]

Jule's online documentation and his business model seem to be doing quite fine. He has international distribution and a worldwide fanbase of professional players all the way down to bedroom bandits. If what he does present or not or how he communicated that info turns some off...well. I think he'll survive. He's having a hard enough time keeping up with demand as it is.

People may feel free to purchase whatever meticulously documented pieces of gear they wish at whatever pricepoint they find reasonable.

I'll be gigging my Jule Amps gear and recording with it just like I have for the past 5 years or so...and remain perfectly happy.

 

[ahc]

All of the baby boomers would be deaf.

Unfortunately a lot of us are or have done damage. Ahhh, the recklessness, immorality, and sometimes stupidity of youth.

 

[interp]

This reply is for you and J.Wolf, since neither of you have offered any suggestion that good common sense is necessary with such power levels into this type of speaker...

You are not the only one reading the forums, so your comments might suggest to others here that it's ok to bang away on the rig because "no worries, the speakers are rated conservatively" whereas in reality that's not really the case (as I illustrated). As long as you are careful to avoid lapses in good judgement and unanticipated sonic "accidents", there's no problem with the surplus of power. That is NOT the case for many players, and the repair industry is kept busy rectifying such damage.

There are folks here who are trying to learn about what might go into stepping up with such a large amp (relative to the speaker capacity), so it's with good nature that we help with good, complete information rather than an inaccurate response.

(Your sarcastic comments have not gone unnoticed by the way, and are not appreciated interp)

Thank you. I think it bears mentioning that I also did not offer any suggestion that common sense is NOT necessary with such power levels.

I truly have no idea what "sarcastic comments" you're talking about. If you mean my reference to the fact that I lack the technical expertise you have and to my 48 years of practical experience, or to my desire to be enlightened on these matters--those were sincere expressions of deference to your greater knowledge. Your taking them as sarcasm and chastising me for it reveals a paternalistic and haughty attitude on your part. Your condescension has not gone unnoticed by the way and is not appreciated, agedhorse.

 

[agedhorse]

Your response makes clear your intent interp.

 

[kd5uwl]

Hey guys .. let's start over.

 

[Brother Goose]

That is a gorgeous amp! Out of my budget at this time but I'll be certain to buy one used off someone in the future...

I'm another vote for the "care about the drunks" club and want to ensure that I have a clean and powerful signal that makes people vibrate in accordance to my will and good intentions.

Lest we forget our responsibility to support the music and make people feel good!

 

[interp]

Your response makes clear your intent interp.

Honi soit quit mal y pense.

 

[agedhorse]

Honi soit quit mal y pense.

Huh?