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Jule Amps Monique part 5

#2,603
Shipping costs/risk plus time without it? No question, local. It's soldering in a switch....not likely a competent tech is gonna **** that up.

This is just me but I'd probably leave it and flip it with a screwdriver or knife when I needed to. Y'know, the if ain't totally broke and still sorta works don't fix it theory?
 
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#2,604
juledude said:
With the M2500 Bass Power Amp there is a real opportunity to reduce your expensive bass cabinet to a smoldering mass of plywood splinters. To avoid doing so, you have to be aware of and stay within the limitations of the cabinet/s. Either use multiple cabinets to handle the power or keep the level within the capabilities of the cabinet. The volume knob is your friend.
Click to expand...

Hi Jule. For some years now I have heard it said that an amplifier whose output rating exceeds that of a speaker cabinet never should be used to drive that cabinet alone because
  • lowering the output setting of the amplifier will not guarantee protection of the cabinet from damage by the amp's greatest output;
  • and that this is because if the source (bass guitar) presents a hot enough signal to the amp (typically a peak),
  • then the amp will use all its headroom to amplify that signal,
  • and if the result exceeds the cabinet's capacity, regardless of the amplifier's settings, then the cabinet (speaker, mainly) will be damaged by the signal.
If this is true, then does it apply to only some amplification technologies, but not to others, including that used in the M2500?

An analogy to this could be a motorcycle or car with a manual transmission: driven in a 65 mph zone, if it is kept in fourth gear and accelerated to 80 mph, the vehicle will exceed the speed limit, regardless of it being geared down.

Thanks,

Snaxster
 
#2,605
I have been wrong before....okay only once in my whole life......:)

Anyway if you are listening for signs of stress then your ear is your friend first.
Amps that go into clipping present a danger to speakers. That's why the opposite of what you say is held to be fact. So....actually both are true.

The choice of gear doesn't release us from subsequent responsibility to play it responsibly. Kinda like beer. :)
 
#2,606
Snaxster said:
An analogy to this could be a motorcycle or car with a manual transmission: driven in a 65 mph zone, if it is kept in fourth gear and accelerated to 80 mph, the vehicle will exceed the speed limit, regardless of it being geared down.
Click to expand...
To stick to your analogy, someone might have a 2500hp sports car with a maximum speed of 245 mph. The maximum speed limit on the roads they drive on is 70 mph. They can have a lot of fun and not exceed the speed limit; because they also have 1500ft-lbs of torque, incredible cornering and breaking capability... Can they get hurt driving it - you bet. Does that mean they shouldn't buy it? That's a personal decision. You can buy a smart car that is guaranteed never to go over 70 and result in a speeding ticket on the highway, if that's your preference. Not a lot of fun but very practical.

The performance of an amplifier is not characterized by maximum power output alone. There is a lot more going on.
 
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#2,607
jsbarber said:
To stick to your analogy, someone might have a 2500hp sports car with a maximum speed of 245 mph. The maximum speed limit on the roads they drive on is 70 mph. They can have a lot of fun and not exceed the speed limit; because they also have 1500ft-lbs of torque, incredible cornering and breaking capability... Can they get hurt driving it - you bet. Does that mean they shouldn't buy it? That's a personal decision. You can buy a smart car that is guaranteed never to go over 70 and result in a speeding ticket on the highway, if that's your preference. Not a lot of fun but very practical.

The performance of an amplifier is not characterized by maximum power output alone. There is a lot more going on.
Click to expand...

Hello. I grant your last point. But that wasn't what I was asking about. My only concern was with the very limit of capacity; that of the speaker cabinet relative to that of the amplifier.

I look forward to Jule's reply.
 
#2,609
Snaxster said:
Hello. I grant your last point. But that wasn't what I was asking about. My only concern was with the very limit of capacity; that of the speaker cabinet relative to that of the amplifier.

I look forward to Jule's reply.
Click to expand...

In doing so you are shrugging off his earlier point which makes a ton of sense. You can absolutely use a 2500 amp with a 300watt cabinet as long as you use common sense.

The points you outlined are not true you can absolutely use a cabinet that has a lower rating then your amp. In fact it is the norm with bass players.
 
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#2,610
Snaxster said:
Hi Jule. For some years now I have heard it said that an amplifier whose output rating exceeds that of a speaker cabinet never should be used to drive that cabinet alone because
  • lowering the output setting of the amplifier will not guarantee protection of the cabinet from damage by the amp's greatest output;
  • and that this is because if the source (bass guitar) presents a hot enough signal to the amp (typically a peak),
  • then the amp will use all its headroom to amplify that signal,
  • and if the result exceeds the cabinet's capacity, regardless of the amplifier's settings, then the cabinet (speaker, mainly) will be damaged by the signal.
If this is true, then does it apply to only some amplification technologies, but not to others, including that used in the M2500?
Click to expand...

It isn't true, starting with the word never. Many amps can easily put out considerably more than their rated power when driven outside the stated distortion rating, and speaker cabinet power ratings are nothing like bedrock either. So as with most things musical, it just depends.
Yel_wink.gif
 
#2,611
Staying with the car analogy it's like running a really hot motor in a car with stock brakes and suspension. You can go faster than the car will safely steer or stop. It doesn't mean you can't safely drive that car. It means you need use common sense driving within the limitations of the weakest components only pushing harder in small increments until you start to feel where the edge is without going over it.

If your ears aren't telling you a speaker is coming close to being unhappy maybe blowing one would be money well spent on your education.
 
#2,612
peterpalmieri said:
In doing so you are shrugging off his earlier point which makes a ton of sense. You can absolutely use a 2500 amp with a 300watt cabinet as long as you use common sense.

The points you outlined are not true you can absolutely use a cabinet that has a lower rating then your amp. In fact it is the norm with bass players.
Click to expand...

Passinwind said:
It isn't true, starting with the word never. Many amps can easily put out considerably more than their rated power when driven outside the stated distortion rating, and speaker cabinet power ratings are nothing like bedrock either. So as with most things musical, it just depends.
Yel_wink.gif
Click to expand...

Thanks for weighing in, gentlemen; Passinwind, especially, since my understanding is that you are fairly technical.

I still would like to hear Jule's thoughts on this as it applies to his amplifier.
 
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#2,615
jdy said:
Have any of you tried a Monique 700 with a Berg CN212? If so, what did you think of this combo ?

I'm currently using a TH500 with the CN212. Thanks!
Click to expand...
That's my main rig. Absolutely love it!

The Berg
- captures the depth of Monique without being indistinct mud.
- EQ changes sound very natural/ musical.
- Sensitivity can be fast or chewy, dynamic or compressed, etc.
- tonally responsive to playing hard/soft attack ie. play harder and it captures the subtle growl of the bass nicely.
- evenness of tone/dynamics between fingerstyle, pick & slap techniques (no EQ changes necessary when swapping).
Caveat: my favourite amp for slap is my Thunderfunk, though I'd be lucky to do one song per night using slap. It's now my backup amp.
- Mon is heavier than TH, but lightweight is nice for awkward load-ins. If using a trolley, moot point.
 
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#2,616
Snaxster said:
Thanks for weighing in, gentlemen; Passinwind, especially, since my understanding is that you are fairly technical.

I still would like to hear Jule's thoughts on this as it applies to his amplifier.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the props, but I've definitely blown up more than my fair share of drivers. The vast majority of those were with rigs spec'ed with a "conservative" amp/cab power rating ratio though, which is why I mentioned that complacency may not pay off regardless of how you spec your rig. For me using a 1000 watt amp and a 112 cab has worked very well on 100s of gigs, or in the old days sometimes even a 2000-4000 watt rig and just 2 15s biamped with mid drivers and/or horns. One slip of your bass output cable connector (hot plug/unplug) and you will be crying though, for sure. As a long time sound provider I'm pretty used to that paradigm, and to me the benefits often outweigh the risks. Plus, as Jule said, it's just plain fun for some of us.
cool.gif
 
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#2,617
Snaxster said:
Thanks for weighing in, gentlemen; Passinwind, especially, since my understanding is that you are fairly technical.

I still would like to hear Jule's thoughts on this as it applies to his amplifier.
Click to expand...

We all would love to hear Jule's thoughts!

......and I guess you don't do well with the ladies because you insulted everyone else :) here as not being technical. :)
Passin' said the same thing, use, your, ears.
Just messing with you and making a case that people with experience stand equal to those with technical knowledge. In fact on TB you don't know who has technical knowledge. You do know if they've ventured down your road before.
 
#2,618
chadds said:
We all would love to hear Jule's thoughts!

......and I guess you don't do well with the ladies because you insulted everyone else :) here as not being technical. :)
Passin' said the same thing, use, your, ears.
Just messing with you and making a case that people with experience stand equal to those with technical knowledge. In fact on TB you don't know who has technical knowledge. You do know if they've ventured down your road before.
Click to expand...

Good luck with that, chadds. Have a nice weekend.
 
#2,620
chadds said:
Feel the levity.
If I offended you it was not my intention.
Click to expand...

Likewise my initial intention was not to offend. When I said blowing up a speaker might educate one's hearing I was sincere. To find out precisely where a line is I may have to cross it into catastrophic failure. If I'm slow to understand what a line is I may cross it several times. I wasn't advising anyone to go blow up speakers but unless you do it making the same mistake over and over and over there's no inherent dishonor there.

Making the above public statement in today's hyper-litigious environment I now need to make this disclaimer: As a professional rigger or designer I would never under any circumstance intentionally push any equipment to failure on a job. As an industry though we destruction test in a controlled environment every piece of rigging equipment. All manufacturers do it and some end users do it again to verify stated safety or design factors. You can't know for sure at what point it will fail if you don't break it. That's education.
 

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