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Learning Chords Vs. Scales for beginners

#21
Basshoofd said:
Learn INTERVALS. Then you can easily understand both chords and scales. Learn chord tones first, because music is written in chords and not in scales. (Scales don't outline harmony, chord tones do.) When you're comfortable with outlining chords, then you can start diving into scales to add some spice or filler.
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i would subsrcibe to this theory ...although the member who said "it's not an either or situation" i absolutely correct ....

scales, intervals and chords are all interdependant on each other and related .....however i beleive Carol Kaye is right over the long haul ....

a bassist who has full understanding of chord construction and arpeggios (chord scales) is FAR better off for mainstream application in jazz, country, blues, pop/rock etc then a player who has focused all on scales!


if there was an either or = i'd go with chord scales and chord formula!
 
#22
MikeBC said:
This is not an either or situation. You need to learn both.

You want to be able to jump right into a three-chord-song rock band then you can start by knowing your root, 3rd, 5th, and octave. Heck add a 4th. Whoops by then might as well finish the job, you know.

You want to be able to do more or play a walking bass line, it helps to know your scales.

Know the notes for each chord and know the scale for each chord. You'll never be at a loss then.

Have fun on your journey.
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this is what it's all about! 1, 3 ,5 octave .......extremely important for the working bassist!
 
#26
To the OP:

The longer you put off knowing all you can about chords the longer it will take you to be able to function in a typcial gigging role as a bassist. Scales would be the least amount of time I would spend on, chordal knowledge and the ability to read is what will put money in your pocket.
 
#29
1958Bassman said:
Yes, they do. The scales are made up of notes with specific intervals. If chords weren't based on scales, they wouldn't be described as they are, e.g., tonic, third, fifth, seventh, etc and the various inversions. The key determines which notes of the scale are used- how would this work if music was chord-based?
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Actually chord tones and scale tones are based on the harmonic series of oscillation of a plucked string or column of air, physics/acoustics. If you divide a string into equal length segments, it will oscillate at different frequencies. Divide it in half and you get an octave (your 12th fret harmonic). Divide it into thirds you get a fifth. Four equal segments, a root again. Five equal segments you get the major 3rd. If you continue to divide the string into smaller equal length segments you will get the rest of the 12 notes that are the basis for western music. Note that the root, fifth and major 3rd come up first, they are the most prominent. It is not a coincidence that major chords are built from these 3 notes or that those 3 notes sound good together. The chords and scales we use are based on the physics and the physics points to the chord tones having more importance than the other scale tones.
 
#32
Problem is with this needless bickering is the point is being missed. There is a big difference between what you should learn and what you should play.

One should learn as much as possible or as much as they want, then apply that usage to their playing.
 
#34
jallenbass said:
Since I have a masters degree in music I can assure you that I'm not talking out my ass. Learn music (which incorporates many areas) and learn to play the bass (which also incorporates many areas). Do this for the rest of your life. This is the path of a musician.
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I respect your masters degree in music, so maybe you can answer some questions for me.

Why do we have enharmonics such as the key of F# major which is the same as a Gb major?

Why are there bb and ## accidentals written in music? Most situations could just as well be written as it's enharmonic equivalent.

I say it is too rack your brain and keep you on your toes!
 
#35
fourstringburn said:
I respect your masters degree in music, so maybe you can answer some questions for me.

Why do we have enharmonics such as the key of F# major which is the same as a Gb major?

Why are there bb and ## accidentals written in music? Most situations could just as well be written as it's enharmonic equivalent.

I say it is too rack your brain and keep you on your toes!
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To follow the conventions of theory. Major and minor scales follow the alphabet and therefore don't duplicate letters. For instance in the key of G major, the leading tone would not be Gb but F#. You wouldn't have 2 Gs in the scale. Once you really know diatonic harmony it does make more sense and is easier to read.

The double flats and sharps still sometimes throw me when reading in orchestra but makes perfect sense theoretically.
 
#36
I'm glad I'm not alone because the double accidentals tend to throw me off until I learn the music thoroughly.

Your correct on key signatures note repeating notes, such as the case in the F# major which has a E# which is the enharmonic equivalent to F but their is already a F ( in the sharp form) in the key signature.

The main question is why have enharmonic key signatures since the only difference is one is in a # key and the other is in a b key? is it just to complete the cycle of 5ths?
 
#39
GeoffT said:
The original question was, "which should I practice more, scales or chord tones?" One benefit of practicing chord tones is that the more you do it, the more you begin to hear the harmony, this happens automatically with repetition. Since bass players generally play one note at a time, it will take even longer to learn to hear the harmony than it would for someone playing a chordal instrument like guitar or piano.
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Part of the problem i have always had with this idea is it does not account for, Louis Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Artie Shaw, Bennie Goodman, Tommy Dorsey etc, or any of the great singers of our time. They all use a monotone instrument, and yes they have all probley studied music, ( but haven't we all, or we certainly have the option) but their instrument is not polyphonic.

In playing scales you exercise the hands and develop simple repeditive movement. Consider them like set in training, they are part of what you do, not the point of it.:)
 
#40
bassion said:
Hi,

I'm trying to figure out which rout to start with, as a complete beginner (not reading music yet and only self-study at this point in time). I looked in some beginner books (Hal Leonard, Bass for Dummies, etc.) and it seems that a lot of it go the Scales way as a major method.

I've been also reading Carol Kaye's web site (lots of respect here) and it seems that she's more into Chords first, as the most important ground work. I looked into getting the Bass DVD for beginners as a starter, but would not like to spread out over too much material now (...time is an issue) .

Now, can you please explain a bit what's with each method, your opinion about starting with one vs. the other, etc.

Your input is very much appreciated.
thanks,
b
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I'd learn the chords first.
It is chords you have to think about when doing your job as a bassist, and chord notes.
Then do the related scales.
 

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