line out or mic for gigs?

[qball26]

I myself prefer to mic my bass cab. My reasoning is this:

I've spend thousands on my rig (as most of us have), to achieve "my sound / tone" and I refuse to use a DI and let someone else decide what "my sound / tone" should be. Otherwise, why invest in gear???

So far so good.....

And if the soundguy ever decided to turn me off in the system, for what ever reason....there are reasons why some amps go to 11.

BUT....
If I'm playing a showcase, where I can't bring my rig, then my MXR Bass DI will have to do.

My 2 cents

 

[TimmyP]

I myself prefer to mic my bass cab. My reasoning is this:

I've spend thousands on my rig (as most of us have), to achieve "my sound / tone" and I refuse to use a DI and let someone else decide what "my sound / tone" should be. Otherwise, why invest in gear???

So far so good.....

And if the soundguy ever decided to turn me off in the system, for what ever reason....there are reasons why some amps go to 11.

BUT....
If I'm playing a showcase, where I can't bring my rig, then my MXR Bass DI will have to do.

My 2 cents

Whatever mic you use, and whatever PA you use it through, you may get a good sound, but it will not sound the same as your cabinet. And it won't have the bottom end that a DI can provide. (Plus, the only rig I've heard that might be worth micing is a three way box. Hard to mic such a box in a way that you gets the most accurate redition of its sound whilst also keeping out the stage wash.)

 

[JimmyM]

Whatever mic you use, and whatever PA you use it through, you may get a good sound, but it will not sound the same as your cabinet. And it won't have the bottom end that a DI can provide. (Plus, the only rig I've heard that might be worth micing is a three way box. Hard to mic such a box in a way that you gets the most accurate redition of its sound whilst also keeping out the stage wash.)

Funny you say this...because my experience is just the opposite. It DOES sound like my amp, only louder. Any time I have gotten offstage and listened to my bass during a show, I am quite pleased at how much it sounds like what I hear out of my amp.

 

[JimmyM]

Jimmy;
Doing a show is a team work. You , as a bass player , practice with a drummer , you create/lock a groove together , each has to put his own and have to let the space to other musician. That is true performance wise , arrangement wise , and sound wise too.
The soundman you're working with has a job to do. You as a bass player have a job to do , no one will come and tell you what amp to use , or you're not gonna tell your drummer what Skins to use. (hope not)

Wow, nobody in your band ever told you what they think you should be using? The guys in my band are a major part of the reason I went back to an SVT (they didn't have to twist my arm), and they are the ONLY reason I went back to roundwounds after a couple months with flats (that required a little arm twisting). We comment on each other's sounds all the time. Sometimes we listen, sometimes we don't. But we take each other's opinions seriously.

Any good soundman HAVE to listen to the sugestions of the band , and if the sugestions are not stoopid , he'll use them. It's a team work.
But in the end , YOU decide what bass you bring to the gig even if your drummer called you to bring the green one.
Same thing with the choice of microphone and or DI or whatever.
You bought a mic , you suggest it to soundman , but in the end it's him who has the "mute" Button under his finger.
That's the very important point in this discussion for me , It's part of the soundman's job to choose the tools he wants to do his job, with the helping cues of the band.
If I'd do your sound , I wouldn't use your mike. I tried those and I prefer another one for that job. So what then ?
You'd do a Diva crisis ?

Nope. I'd do the gig because I had to, but then I'd badmouth you to anyone who would listen...unless you came up with a better mic than mine. I am always a sucker for a better mic than mine, but if you put a kick mic on my cab, then we'd have to talk.

I do a sound gig each summer , at an outside festival (the biggest worldwide) I have 15 minutes to do a soundcheck without the PA on.
Headphone soundcheck for the FOH , monitors check on stage only.
So I have presets for different instruments to start with to gain some time with their appropriate mics.(gain structure & EQ)
A trumpet player didn't want to use the mic I was working with.
I tried to explain to him exactly what I'm telling you now; first you are loosing your souncheck time arguing and second I'm not gonna tell you what note to play , so don't tell me what mic to use.
It's a very different situation from what you probably live at every gig but the point is the same......

That's a whole different ballgame. At a festival with a million different bands and only 15 minutes for a changeover, you do what you have to. But again, I have a handful of tools that I bring to every gig where I can pretty much get my sound any time I want, regardless of whether I use a mic or a DI. Don't want to use a mic on my cab? No problem...I'll just plug in my VT Bass pedal and give you that sound anyway. Either way, I'm going to get what I want.

I'm curious , how does your soundman deal with the phase problems with the DI and the mike on the same instrument?
Please PM me the answer.......

The answer is easy enough to put it here...I usually don't use both. I usually just use a mic or a DI. And when I do use both, they usually mix me similar to a biamp where the DI does the low end and the mic picks up the upper mids and highs, and I've yet to have a soundman complain about phasing or smearing the mix.

So here's the bottom line...I may not be able to get everything I want on every gig...there are sometimes extenuating circumstances, like they give me a horrible cab that requires a lot of EQ to get my sound, or the only mic they have to use on me is a kick mic, or the changeover has to be so quick that I literally only have time to plug in and start playing...in those situations, I care a lot less and I'll just go with the flow. But when it's my gig and I am playing bass for the star of the show, or when my band is the star of the show, I get what I want, period, and you can either go along with us or you will be working your last gig with us. That's just the way it is. You use my mic and you mix my band the way we want to be mixed, or there won't be any future work from us. Fortunately, that doesn't seem to be an issue very often at all, and our gigs are mostly filled with happiness and joy all around.

 

[JimmyM]

BTW, let's lay off terms like "diva crisis," huh? I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion here. And it certainly isn't a diva move to want your band to sound its best and not have a soundman who works against you. You really don't want me to start pulling out my derogatory terms for soundmen, do you?

 

[JackANSI]

To get to the root of my answer to the OP:

The only thing I'd be worried about with mic'ing a cab, is feedback. If you can promise the sound guy you're not going to be the cause of it, use one as you feel. If you have no idea how to use/place a mic, please leave that part to the sound guy and respect his choice between DI and mic.

It sounds to me like JimmyM's mic is probably not going to cause much if any feedback, but if it was the source, I'd expect a professional to concede and let me do my job. Or at least 'suffer' with the DI till we can move his rig around during a break to get it out of the area that is causing the feedback.

Initially it sounded to me like JimmyM was being difficult , but he is actually just concerned about the performance like he should be. But not everyone will benefit from the same technique of getting a signal to the board, which I hope he understands.

I think a majority of people aren't having a problem with a mic on a cabinet, I think the problem is with saying thats the best way in every case. That being completely untrue.

 

[JimmyM]

To get to the root of my answer to the OP:

The only thing I'd be worried about with mic'ing a cab, is feedback. If you can promise the sound guy you're not going to be the cause of it, use one as you feel. If you have no idea how to use/place a mic, please leave that part to the sound guy and respect his choice between DI and mic.

It sounds to me like JimmyM's mic is probably not going to cause much if any feedback, but if it was the source, I'd expect a professional to concede and let me do my job. Or at least 'suffer' with the DI till we can move his rig around during a break to get it out of the area that is causing the feedback.

Initially it sounded to me like JimmyM was being difficult , but he is actually just concerned about the performance like he should be. But not everyone will benefit from the same technique of getting a signal to the board, which I hope he understands.

I think a majority of people aren't having a problem with a mic on a cabinet, I think the problem is with saying thats the best way in every case. That being completely untrue.

Hey, if you think a DI works better for your rig, by all means DI. I just know what works for MY rig, and that's what I do, and I really really really don't like being second-guessed by a soundman who assumes I'm some sort of noodnik with no clue, or being told I'm doing the wrong thing when it's what I like and want. That's all.

BTW, I have been micing cabs since 1977, and would you like to know how many times my bass cab mic has caused feedback? 0.

 

[fokof]

BTW, let's lay off terms like "diva crisis," huh? I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion here. And it certainly isn't a diva move to want your band to sound its best and not have a soundman who works against you. You really don't want me to start pulling out my derogatory terms for soundmen, do you?

It's not a question of working against a soundman/band at all.

It's a question of freedom to do your work the best you can do , with the knowledge and experience of all including yourself.

You tell the soundman; my bass should sound like this-that , I usually use this-that mic , this-that DI. When he's in front of the board , he has to mix the band the best way possible , and there are different avenues to do it. If the guy start doin everything , everybody is sayin' around the band/tour , the bass player included, it's gonna sound like mud.
The guitar will want to be louder (his mother too) , the keys will be louder (his GF too) , the vocals will be louder (the manager too)
In the end , that's why it's a one man only job.
There a difference between doin' what people say , and take it as a cue/suggestion.

My bandmates told me wich bass they prefer , in the end I chose , not them.


PS ; I always use the same mike on bass amps , and it's the same I always use on kick.

 

[JimmyM]

PS ; I always use the same mike on bass amps , and it's the same I always use on kick.

Ewwww! Scoop city! Yeah, we'd have a problem there, dude. I like mics that are much flatter in response than kick mics. That's the whole reason I bought a PR 40.

BTW, I do agree that you can't take direction from the entire band. But I am one of the few bassists I've ever met that has told the soundman that I think I'm too loud in a mix. It's so not about being featured for me. I just want the sound I like and have it mixed to where I sound present but not overbearing.

 

[fokof]

I myself prefer to mic my bass cab. My reasoning is this:

I've spend thousands on my rig (as most of us have), to achieve "my sound / tone" and I refuse to use a DI and let someone else decide what "my sound / tone" should be. Otherwise, why invest in gear???

So far so good.....

And if the soundguy ever decided to turn me off in the system, for what ever reason....there are reasons why some amps go to 11.

BUT....
If I'm playing a showcase, where I can't bring my rig, then my MXR Bass DI will have to do.

My 2 cents

I have a different philosophy;
I will use whatever needs to be used to have the best overall band sound in the FOH.
If that means a DI , be it.
If that means mic my amp , what the heck , not my job.
I try to put the band interest in front of mine.

I also invested Loads and Loads of money in gear.
I consider that I have a very good bass sound.Good enough for me.

 

[fokof]

Ewwww! Scoop city! Yeah, we'd have a problem there, dude. I like mics that are much flatter in response than kick mics. That's the whole reason I bought a PR 40.

Have I named a mic?
Do you know wich one I use for those applications?
Maybe it's even flatter than the PR40.......

Ahhh , the prejudice.......

 

[JimmyM]

Have I named a mic?
Do you know wich one I use for those applications?
Maybe it's even flatter than the PR40.......

Ahhh , the prejudice.......

Oh stop with your nonsense! Like soundmen aren't prejudiced against musicians

 

[Zooberwerx]

Never had to use a mic'd rig but I'd sure love to some pics of proper mic placement. I'm sure there's a method to the madness.

Riis

 

[JimmyM]

Never had to use a mic'd rig but I'd sure love to some pics of proper mic placement. I'm sure there's a method to the madness.

Riis

There is. The brightest and most full-range sound you can get is usually in the center, though some soundmen suggest micing right on the edge of the dustcover. Haven't found much of a difference doing that, to be honest.

If that's too much treble for you, you can put the mic to the outer edge of the cone. I used to like to do that sometimes just to make it really fat. But now I'm more into micing right in the middle of the cone.

 

[qball26]

There is. The brightest and most full-range sound you can get is usually in the center, though some soundmen suggest micing right on the edge of the dustcover. Haven't found much of a difference doing that, to be honest.

If that's too much treble for you, you can put the mic to the outer edge of the cone. I used to like to do that sometimes just to make it really fat. But now I'm more into micing right in the middle of the cone.

I'm the same. Mic right in the center of the cone. Tried angling the mic off to the side of the basket, but I like the sound right in the middle.

 

[JackANSI]

Hey, if you think a DI works better for your rig, by all means DI. I just know what works for MY rig, and that's what I do, and I really really really don't like being second-guessed by a soundman who assumes I'm some sort of noodnik with no clue, or being told I'm doing the wrong thing when it's what I like and want. That's all.

BTW, I have been micing cabs since 1977, and would you like to know how many times my bass cab mic has caused feedback? 0.

Then you're the exception to the rule man! Congrats!

 

[bongomania]

Then you're the exception to the rule man!

Oh, he's the exception to everything.

 

[RickenBoogie]

.....not that it's a bad thing....

 

[JimmyM]

 

[sonic assassin]

as far as "my sound" vs the bands sound goes.. my last band worked their sounds around ME because i was the most driving force in the band. the drummer liked to fly around a lot, and the guitarists switched off lead guitar and lead vocal duty (often mid song), so i had to be clutch. they didnt really have tone preferences that conflicted with my bass. i blasted through the mix like a jackhammer..

except when we had a sound guy... then he took a DI and sucked all the highs and mids out and we sounded terrible. when we played parks and ran our own sound, we sounded great.