Low Down Sound Cab Club started!

[Chef]

Ric; I bet those are nice.
I have both a 2x8+mid driver, and a 2x8+horn. They make a great pair; both mine use the long throw ceramics though.

 

[Chef]

See though, with the 15/6 cab loaded with the 3015LF, and crossed at 800hz or 1300 or wherever...you're never gonna get that circa 4khz breakup outta that.
I understand you guys are working for a "semi-sorta-hi-fi thing that'll take whatever you throw at it" kinda design, but, there are some times where that's not the best thing, depending what your sonic goals are.

Yep. Pretty much what I've heard and described. You have to puch the 15/6 combination a lot harder before you begin to hear breakup. QUOTE]

 

[alexclaber]

See though, with the 15/6 cab loaded with the 3015LF, and crossed at 800hz or 1300 or wherever...you're never gonna get that circa 4khz breakup outta that.
I understand you guys are working for a "semi-sorta-hi-fi thing that'll take whatever you throw at it" kinda design, but, there are some times where that's not the best thing, depending what your sonic goals are.

That's where a head, preamp or overdrive pedal that breaks up nicely is the solution.

Alex

 

[rpsands]

See though, with the 15/6 cab loaded with the 3015LF, and crossed at 800hz or 1300 or wherever...you're never gonna get that circa 4khz breakup outta that.
I understand you guys are working for a "semi-sorta-hi-fi thing that'll take whatever you throw at it" kinda design, but, there are some times where that's not the best thing, depending what your sonic goals are.

Yep. Pretty much what I've heard and described. You have to puch the 15/6 combination a lot harder before you begin to hear breakup.

I'd say this is debatable. If you have the skillset and gear to introduce that 4khz breakup with eq + a pedal (say for example you boost 4khz heavily before it hits the pedal) you can get the same sounds out of the 15/6. Or maybe just using a pedal that does it on its own, whatever.

Obviously sometimes it can be simpler to get to nebulous tonal goals by using a cabinet that has those characteristics but I think when all is said and done, it's a lot more cost effective for *most* people to get a full range cabinet and develop your pre-cabinet tone to fit your needs. That way if the tone in your head changes it's not "let's go search for a cabinet that does this without any eq adjustments or pedals/dsp" which is fairly challenging.

This argument tends to devolve, but I can say in the situation where you need a pretty narrow tone profile it can make sense to get a cabinet that has some eq and/or distortion built in.

That said I believe if you use guitar drivers for the midrange (e.g. make the fEarful a tad taller and stuff a guitar 10 in there) you might get pretty sweet results

 

[greenboy]

That said I believe if you use guitar drivers for the midrange (e.g. make the fEarful a tad taller and stuff a guitar 10 in there) you might get pretty sweet results

Also negates some size and flexibility/blank canvas advantages. If I was going to trade the flexibility off I think I'd probably just go with a 3015LF woofer only box, and whatever guitar rig or smaller cab on the high side of a crossover.

Anyway, nothing wrong with using the 3015 in some combinations or alone. Each is good. The only reasons I haven't designed 3015-based cabs is because

(1) I have no trouble getting that sonic stamp with my 15/6/1 and my gear

(2) Not much design to putting a woofer in a box and maybe adding a high-passed tweeter. Could do a waveguide crossed over lower but there's a definite bias against non-cone upper midrange in bass guitar circles.

 

[rpsands]

Also negates some size and flexibility/blank canvas advantages. If I was going to trade the flexibility off I think I'd probably just go with a 3015LF woofer only box, and whatever guitar rig or smaller cab on the high side of a crossover.

Anyway, nothing wrong with using the 3015 in some combinations or alone. Each is good. The only reasons I haven't designed 3015-based cabs is because

(1) I have no trouble getting that sonic stamp with my 15/6/1 and my gear

(2) Not much design to putting a woofer in a box and maybe adding a high-passed tweeter. Could do a waveguide crossed over lower but there's a definite bias against non-cone upper midrange in bass guitar circles.

Yeah, I agree.

The main point of the 3015 is you can get a semi-fullrange cabinet (as fullrange as any normal bass guitar cab) that'll do what most people need down at around 30lbs. The 3015 cabinet will really replace a 4x10 for most people and will replace almost any 2x12.

The fEarful is a little less "plug and play" also, so I find myself recommending the single 3015 to most players who are not 5-stringing it.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Hello,
I usually haunt the DB side, but I have to chime in here because I have a custom cabinet that Don built for me. I'll post a picture soon. When EA the EA VL 208's were discontinued I had build a 2x8 that featured two B&C Neo drivers. It's a great cabinet especially if you are going to double on DB and EB. Don even put the controls for the tweeter, and midrange on the side of the cabinet so you can easily access them. Lots of attention to detail, that's typically Don's thing. He even used two different height rubber risers on the bottom of the cabinet to it has tilt upward in the front. Very cool.

Ric,

How much does this cab weigh and how does it compare directly to your VL208

 

[Ric Vice]

Ric; I bet those are nice.
I have both a 2x8+mid driver, and a 2x8+horn. They make a great pair; both mine use the long throw ceramics though.

Chef,
Yep, It's a great cab. The 8" B&C Neo's in the LDS are definitely brighter, than say my EA VL 208, but certainly comparable in sound. Having the three way configuration gives you a little more detail, especially in the midrange. My only regret is that I had Don build it as a 4 ohm cabinet, that makes it a standalone that I can't pair with other boxes, since neither of my Walter Woods amps will run at 2 ohms. Had I to do it over again, I would have made it 8 ohms. I almost had Don build a second one with just the two B&C drivers because it's sounds so good. It was then that I realized the 4 ohm error of my ways.

Ric

 

[Chef]

Hindsight...yeah.
I wondered about having Don build a VL208 clone: nice to know it's doable!

 

[coolrunner989]

I'm going to call Don tomorrow about building a 1212/6 + tweeter with the 3012LF's, so it'll be a 4 ohm standalone for my Shuttle Max 12.0 @ 700w for now

 

[KJung]

+1, it seems more practical to use my cab with a micro cab or a standard 500 watt head because it is more sensitive than the LF, which as you said demands a higher wattage head to really open up the head and explore the potential of the 3015LF.

On a side note, Ken if you look at the chart you can see a bump in the 2 kHz "grindy" range, which would explain what you were hearing: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Wow, is that plot an exact picture of the tone of that driver/cab! Cool! I like it a LOT.

 

[alexclaber]

Wow, is that plot an exact picture of the tone of that driver/cab! Cool! I like it a LOT.

That's it in a huge sealed cab mounted flush against a wall. It's different in a normal sized ported cab (more bottom, less flat in mids) and varies considerably as you move off-axis. What it does illustrate well is how strong but even the 3015 is all the way through the midrange, whilst being nicely controlled on the cone break-up modes - so different to cheaper 15" drivers.

These are more typical of the traditional 15" bass guitar sound that's so often bemoaned:

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Note the big sensitivity deficit and the lesser Xmax.

Whilst this is a better 15" as used in the current Orange 15" cabs:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Alex

 

[KJung]

That's it in a huge sealed cab mounted flush against a wall. It's different in a normal sized ported cab (more bottom, less flat in mids) and varies considerably as you move off-axis. What it does illustrate well is how strong but even the 3015 is all the way through the midrange, whilst being nicely controlled on the cone break-up modes - so different to cheaper 15" drivers.

These are more typical of the traditional 15" bass guitar sound that's so often bemoaned:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Note the big sensitivity deficit and the lesser Xmax.

Whilst this is a better 15" as used in the current Orange 15" cabs:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Alex

That's all over my head! I was just commenting on that upper mid grind that come SCREAMING out of the box I played, and the nice full, non boomy, punchy but fat low end (i.e., not a huge low end extension, but a real, useable low end) Really nice, organic, warm, articulate upper mid response that I really liked, and that can easily be controlled with most amps with an upper midrange control.

I now wish I would have done a second clip with a less aggressive intrument, and dialing back the upper mids just a touch at 1K, since that cab would sound very warm and fat and not nearly as grindy and in your face as the clip I put up. But man, from the first note with that aggressive Sadowsky and that F500, I couldn't really put it down to change out the head and bass!!!! Hopefully, Ryan will put up a clip with his passive alder/RW J with the wonderful Hartke LH500. That should provide the 'other end of the tone continuum' with that cab!

Nice box

Edit: I was also pleasantly surprised at the tone when I boosted the Sadowsky treble control. I've literally never used that treble boost, since I play through cabs with tweeters, and the 'flat' tone of the upper end of the Sadowsky is inherently bright and sizzle. However, with that '4K shelving boos' (I think that's the spec on the Sadowsky on board pre), the treble response was very clean and natural... not sizzly of course, but very pleasant to the ear.

 

[alexclaber]

That's all over my head!

Come on Ken, it's not that hard! Look at the shape of the curve (no bass amp EQ is going to be able to deal with those huge break-up peaks) and what the dB SPL reading is on the left for the flat-ish section in the midrange. Then see the Xmax figures and note that a doubling of Xmax is equivalent to adding a second matching cab in terms of extra max SPL in the lows.

Alex

 

[KJung]

Come on Ken, it's not that hard! Look at the shape of the curve (no bass amp EQ is going to be able to deal with those huge break-up peaks) and what the dB SPL reading is on the left for the flat-ish section in the midrange. Then see the Xmax figures and note that a doubling of Xmax is equivalent to adding a second matching cab in terms of extra max SPL in the lows.

Alex

Cool! As always, thanks for the primer! I love this stuff!

 

[Ryan Mohr]

That's all over my head! I was just commenting on that upper mid grind that come SCREAMING out of the box I played, and the nice full, non boomy, punchy but fat low end (i.e., not a huge low end extension, but a real, useable low end) Really nice, organic, warm, articulate upper mid response that I really liked, and that can easily be controlled with most amps with an upper midrange control.

I now wish I would have done a second clip with a less aggressive intrument, and dialing back the upper mids just a touch at 1K, since that cab would sound very warm and fat and not nearly as grindy and in your face as the clip I put up. But man, from the first note with that aggressive Sadowsky and that F500, I couldn't really put it down to change out the head and bass!!!! Hopefully, Ryan will put up a clip with his passive alder/RW J with the wonderful Hartke LH500. That should provide the 'other end of the tone continuum' with that cab!

Nice box

Edit: I was also pleasantly surprised at the tone when I boosted the Sadowsky treble control. I've literally never used that treble boost, since I play through cabs with tweeters, and the 'flat' tone of the upper end of the Sadowsky is inherently bright and sizzle. However, with that '4K shelving boos' (I think that's the spec on the Sadowsky on board pre), the treble response was very clean and natural... not sizzly of course, but very pleasant to the ear.

I can definitely put up some clips, although my mic is not of the highest quality. My Fender Classic '60s J bass is currently in pieces (stupid grounding problem that I can't fix ever since I installed NJ4s and new pots/cap/jack/wiring), but I can post a clip of my passive alder/RW SX J bass. That's gonna be COMPLETELY different because that bass has 4-5 month old played-in DR hi-beams (the same ones you gave me Ken, they still sound good... for me at least). Sorry for the OT, but I can definitely post soundclips.

 

[John D Harris]

I'm going to call Don tomorrow about building a 1212/6 + tweeter with the 3012LF's, so it'll be a 4 ohm standalone for my Shuttle Max 12.0 @ 700w for now

That's the design that's giving me (almost) terminal GAS.

Keep us updated.

 

[coolrunner989]

That's the design that's giving me (almost) terminal GAS.

Keep us updated.

Called him, had a nice talk, told me to send him an email with my specifics so I just did that. Hopefully hear back from him later today or tomorrow morning he said. He's at a 4 week wait time right now, which is just about perfect. I'm looking forward to this!

 

[John D Harris]

Called him, had a nice talk, told me to send him an email with my specifics so I just did that. Hopefully hear back from him later today or tomorrow morning he said. He's at a 4 week wait time right now, which is just about perfect. I'm looking forward to this!

You having Don do it based on greenboy's fEarful design?

[That's the one I'm jonesin' for!]

 

[coolrunner989]

I mentioned it, we'll see exactly how it works out.