Low Down Sound Cab Club started!

[Chef]

I'll comment again on the 3015 re-loaded Mesa Diesels...

Yep, they had nice top end content; especially in terms of "for a 15," and "for a cab with no mid-driver or horn."

If you're a nickel round player, who likes an old school rawk sound, it's great. If you want a Motown P with flats sound, you might have to trim tone on a passive bass, or treble on an acitve bass; and/or trim a little at the amp. That softer, rounder Jamerson old school sound wasn't overly deep as some cabs, and/or active basses are now: nuttin' was capable of big dubby bass back then...but, I had no complaints either personally, from sound guys or bandmates/audience members about those two cabs being low end shy out on the job; it's just that they were really solid in that 80-100hz range than the 40-60 thing that something like a UL410 has.

You gotta remember, test driving at home is way different than in a crowded club, and a lot of that "big papaer cone driver" top end content is gonna go away in that sort of environment in terms of "clarity," and be turned into "articulate" instead.

I really liked it; but ultimately, I need to sheen and calrity than that and opted out of both those cabs, and the 15/6 because I just flat out need a horn...and, I still have the LDS 2x12+2x6.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

Ken, I spent a little time testing/comparing gear at 4Mal's place a few weeks back and got to hear a couple of cabs with single 3015 drivers. These were single 15 cabs and I was kinda surprised at how laid-back, almost mellow the 3015 sounded. Grindy would be the last thing I would use to describe the tone I heard. I brought out a cab loaded with an EVM-15B and by comparison, the EV was far edgier, grindier in the upper mids & highs. For my taste, the 3015 sounded kinda tame in comparison. Where I did feel the 3015 clearly excelled was in it's bass extension/weight. That and the fact that I wouldn't be afraid to hit it with more power.

If I remember correctly, his boxes are smaller than mine (2.4 compared to 3.2)

Ryan, if you're up for it, how about (temporarily) swapping the 3015 with the driver in your Fender cab? The results will give you (and us) some useful info about the particular tuning of the two enclosures. Maybe you just dig the tuning of the Fender cab better.

And I own a LH500 and feel it's eq is less bloomy and less interactive than the Fender tone stack. It's supposedly the same style eq circuit, but the Hartke is tighter on the bottom, to my ears anyway. That's not necessarily a bad thing, my Alembic FX-1 was a bit looser on the bottom than I preferred.

The Fender combo has a 12" speaker in it, so that's not an option.

I have a clip posted earlier in this thread using an uber clean, transparent amp (Markbass F500 set flat), and it was as grindy as any cab I've ever heard (due to what I perceive as a bit of a bump in the upper mids). Also, Ryan posted the frequency distribution of that speaker a few posts back, and there is a LOT going on way up top (although Alex pointed out that the plot is not based on anything close to the TL box performance). I believe Chef found this also. The 3015L with that mid driver is very clean and 'polite' up top inherently, but man, I've never heard anything grind so much as that single 3015. I have no idea if the relatively small enclosure has anything to do with that. However, there was plenty of low end to my ear.

Also, when I heard one of the 15/6's with the 3015 (nonL) that was crossed over (i.e., not running full range), it sounded very full and deep and 'more typical 15', since I assume that 800hz crossover removed all that aggressive upper mid response from the voicing of that speaker.

I again liked the tone of Ryan's box a lot. I assume that upper mid brightness can be EQ'd out, but I guess you'd have to have some pretty good control in that 1K region, and not every head has that.

+1, this cab is definitely grindy and that can't be disputed. Maybe other tunings and enclosures have less grind, but this cab has grind in spades. I don't really mind that grind. In fact, I do dig it and that will turn into an articulate tone on the gig. I'm just having a problem with the bottom on this cab, which is maybe a little too smooth and not fat enough for me.

I'll comment again on the 3015 re-loaded Mesa Diesels...

Yep, they had nice top end content; especially in terms of "for a 15," and "for a cab with no mid-driver or horn."

If you're a nickel round player, who likes an old school rawk sound, it's great. If you want a Motown P with flats sound, you might have to trim tone on a passive bass, or treble on an acitve bass; and/or trim a little at the amp. That softer, rounder Jamerson old school sound wasn't overly deep as some cabs, and/or active basses are now: nuttin' was capable of big dubby bass back then...but, I had no complaints either personally, from sound guys or bandmates/audience members about those two cabs being low end shy out on the job; it's just that they were really solid in that 80-100hz range than the 40-60 thing that something like a UL410 has.

You gotta remember, test driving at home is way different than in a crowded club, and a lot of that "big papaer cone driver" top end content is gonna go away in that sort of environment in terms of "clarity," and be turned into "articulate" instead.

I really liked it; but ultimately, I need to sheen and calrity than that and opted out of both those cabs, and the 15/6 because I just flat out need a horn...and, I still have the LDS 2x12+2x6.

I have three main basses: a Fender Classic '60s J bass with NJ4s and Sadowsky blue nickels, an SX alder/RW J bass with really old DR hi-beams, and an SX alder/RW fretless P bass with Sadowsky blue nickels. I'm not a P bass with flats guy the majority of the time, more of that old school nickel round tone.

I wonder if my cab was tuned a lot differently than your Mesas, because I'm feeling that the low end is very smooth, and doesn't have the upper bass/low mid bump that I like.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

I just hooked up my brother's Carvin X-60 (all-tube guitar combo) to the LDS 115 and I got some seriously sweet tones.

For the first tone, a clean, warm, fat, and thick tone, I set all the tone controls flat, engaged the lead channel, and set the master to 10 and the drive to 1.

For the second tone, a gnarly overdriven grind, I set all the tone controls flat, engaged the lead channel, and set the master to 3 and the drive to 3.

My point is that these cabs sound great overdriven, or set clean through all-tube guitar amps.

The amp sold for $399 in 1984, here's a picture:

 

[Chef]

cabs without horns are the best deal for overdriven tones, IMO.

 

[Ryan Mohr]

cabs without horns are the best deal for overdriven tones, IMO.

+1, and the upper mid grind compliments the overdriven tone well. I really dig that sound with a pick. But, that "master cranked, drive barely on" tone is really sweet. Warm and woolly, but relatively clean.

 

[Blues Cat]

Ryan I'm wondering if you're looking for more lows maybe increasing the cu vol of the cab to 18" deep would bring out a little more booty.

 

[alexclaber]

Ryan I'm wondering if you're looking for more lows maybe increasing the cu vol of the cab to 18" deep would bring out a little more booty.

Increasing the size of the cab will make it go lower, it won't make it sound any fatter. Raising the tuning frequency will fatten the sound but it's much easier to turn up the bass knob!

Alex

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Increasing the size of the cab will make it go lower, it won't make it sound any fatter. Raising the tuning frequency will fatten the sound but it's much easier to turn up the bass knob!

Alex

Actually, isn't the solution to turn up the lower mids?

 

[rpsands]

I really think the smoothness of the low mid/upper bass to bass transition is a good thing in a cabinet, Ryan. It makes your cabinet far more flexible than it would be otherwise.

As you've found from fiddling, the cabinet is capable of any sound that Fender 1x12 (or other low mid bumped cabinets) can make with some eq.

That said, if you are set on making the cabinet tuned to your sound, I would call Don up and ask him if he can retune the cabinet up to 55hz or so. Here's what that looks like approximately driven by 300 watts.

 

[deb]

Hello folks!

Don designed/built me a lil ol' LDS cab based on the Fearful 12/6.

It has a 3012LF and a Faital W6N8-120 mid-driver. Don did some experimenting and thought this particular mid-driver sounded best with this cab.

I also specifically requested the Ralf-version of the Passinwind 12/6 crossover and that the cab be made as light as possible. It's covered in burgundy tolex and has black grill cloth.

Don is going to try to bring this cab for testing at KJung's place Monday. Hopefully Ken will have time for that and be nice enough to post a pic and give the community his take on the cab sound.

A heartfelt thanks to all the folks who generously share their time, energy, and experience on the talkbass Fearful/LDS forums--I've have and will continue to learn a lot from your chatter!

 

[rockchopper86]

How long does it usualy take don to respond to emails I sent a email like 3 days ago about what I wanted built and I still haven't heard anything back IM sure he's just busy but IM trying to figure out if I should shoot him another email or what

 

[Mystic Michael]

How long does it usualy take don to respond to emails I sent a email like 3 days ago about what I wanted built and I still haven't heard anything back IM sure he's just busy but IM trying to figure out if I should shoot him another email or what

Be patient, Grasshopper. As has been stated in this forum numerous times before, Don is a one-man shop. When he's not replying to email and fielding phone calls, he's usually building cabs...

I have corresponded with Don via email on a number of occasions during the past three years or so, in addition to the occasional phone call, and have always found him to be responsive and reasonably prompt.

Don will reply to your email. Chill...

MM

 

[rockchopper86]

Ok cool I wasn't saying anything bad about him im very excited to do some business with him just checking to see if I should send another email thank you for the fast response

 

[alexclaber]

It has a 3012LF and a Faital W6N8-120 mid-driver. Don did some experimenting and thought this particular mid-driver sounded best with this cab.

I also specifically requested the Ralf-version of the Passinwind 12/6 crossover and that the cab be made as light as possible. It's covered in burgundy tolex and has black grill cloth.

Sounds cool but bear in mind you have to redesign the crossover if you change the drivers!

Alex

 

[alexclaber]

Actually, isn't the solution to turn up the lower mids?

Not to have the same effect as raising the tuning frequency. To boost the upper bass / low mids you'd need to shrink the enclosure quite a bit as well.

Alex

 

[Ryan Mohr]

I really think the smoothness of the low mid/upper bass to bass transition is a good thing in a cabinet, Ryan. It makes your cabinet far more flexible than it would be otherwise.

As you've found from fiddling, the cabinet is capable of any sound that Fender 1x12 (or other low mid bumped cabinets) can make with some eq.

That said, if you are set on making the cabinet tuned to your sound, I would call Don up and ask him if he can retune the cabinet up to 55hz or so. Here's what that looks like approximately driven by 300 watts.

I'm just gonna keep the cabinet the way it is. It sounds great, and even though it doesn't sound perfect, it will sound great in the mix.

Keep in mind I told Don 55 Hz with 3.0 cubic feet, but he ended with 48 Hz with 3.2 cubic feet.

Not to have the same effect as raising the tuning frequency. To boost the upper bass / low mids you'd need to shrink the enclosure quite a bit as well.

Alex

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying. I tried boosting 150 Hz 6 dBs and that sounded pretty good. But, I can't have that sound with the LH500.

 

[alexclaber]

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying. I tried boosting 150 Hz 6 dBs and that sounded pretty good. But, I can't have that sound with the LH500.

Well the main thing I was saying was just turn up the lows and quit fussing over the details - once you're in a venue on a gig and you're dealing with high SPL and varied acoustics then it'll all sound different anyway. Shut up and play your (bass) guitar!

Alex

 

[Passinwind]

Sounds cool but bear in mind you have to redesign the crossover if you change the drivers!

Yep. Might as well just let Ralf and/or Don do it their own way all the way around at that point, IMHO.

 

[thejumpcat]

...to build an exact copy of an EA VL-208?

That particular cabinet is extremely sought after by double bassist. And because they're discontinued, they're nearly impossible to find.

Just curious if Don's ever replicated one. (Is that legal? Does EA have a patent on that design? Sorry to be ignorant on this.)

 

[Chef]

exact, maybe not, but, i know someone here has a pair of 208 style cabs;
user from olivette mo...thought it was in this thread...