Low Down Sound Cab Club started!

[rpsands]

I think if you know how to eq for dub/reggae it'd be fine. Lots of people use cabs with far less low end capability for dub style music...this speaker will go lower than most 18's on the market. Because you have the very flexible B1500 5 band eq I think you could manage it. However, it's going to depend on whether you're doing drop tuning or not. Anything lower than drop D and I would skip the 3015s and go for an LF based cab.

That said, for a super flexible cab, a pair of the 12/6's pictured in this thread might be more suitable. Or a pair of 15/6s.

The 3015's are dear to my heart because they go so low and loud and are very light, but they do not go as low as the LF series.

You would want tweeters in the cabs most likely, with on/off switches, and to request a tuning of close to 55hz IMHO (and be firm about it .

 

[Passinwind]

I had originally requested the Eminence 6A mid driver or the 6ND410 (?) or the B&C 6md38 that Passinwind used in his 12/6. I wasn't sure about the Faital mid-driver, but at some point, I felt it wasn't wise to interrupt the flow of the river and that I should just let the master wield his craft. And, from what I see/hear in Ken's pics/clip, Don did a great job!!

Man, my name seems to keep popping up in these threads! I'm no cab expert, just an occasional hobby builder. Personally, I recommend that you all just go with whatever Don thinks sounds best. If you want to second guess that, build it yourself. But that's just me...

BTW, I used the B&C driver in one of my own designs, not a fEarful. My fEarful 12/6 uses the 6ND410, as spec'ed by greenboy.

 

[KJung]

Thanks so much Ken for posting the pics and the sound clip. I really appreciate you doing that! If you're ever in Toronto I owe you a big back bacon and egg brunch maybe with a good Belgian beer.

I had originally requested the Eminence 6A mid driver or the 6ND410 (?) or the B&C 6md38 that Passinwind used in his 12/6. I wasn't sure about the Faital mid-driver, but at some point, I felt it wasn't wise to interrupt the flow of the river and that I should just let the master wield his craft. And, from what I see/hear in Ken's pics/clip, Don did a great job!!

Hey, it's my joy and honor to play some of these cabs before they go out. I'm pretty clueless about specific drivers, etc., but Don really likes that particular mid driver and said it's (to his ear) a better match with that driver regarding SPL and not having to pad it down and all that stuff. All I know is, it sounded very good me me, and it 'seemed' to me to have a little bit more lower treble than upper mids of the other 6 that has been used in these cabs. As you could hear from the little slappity slap at the end of the clip, this cab has the ability to get quite crisp without having to EQ out a bunch of strong upper mid gank. Very impressive, and very small and light.

I hope you like it. All these cabs have their own personality. One of the reasons I'm still playing the 'off the shelf' stuff from less 'custom' manufacturers is that I wouldn't know quite where to begin on tuning and all that stuff. However, I am very impressed with all these cabs, and they all have their own personalility!

It's cool that the little Edirol recorder can capture the relatively subtle differences in the nature if the mids on these cabs. It of course, can't reproduce the deep bass differences (I don't think the mic's are capable of picking that up), but Don feels (as I do) that the clips are a pretty good indication of the sound of the cabs (at least the sound of the cabs with a relatively neutral SS head a relatively aggressive J type instrument).

Enjoy, it's a nice one!

 

[rpsands]

All I know is, it sounded very good me me, and it 'seemed' to me to have a little bit more lower treble than upper mids of the other 6 that has been used in these cabs. As you could hear from the little slappity slap at the end of the clip, this cab has the ability to get quite crisp without having to EQ out a bunch of strong upper mid gank. Very impressive, and very small and light.

I wonder if what you're seeing is the 1.5khz-4.5khz or so dip on the fAital charts. Like, it's got a bunch of stuff at 1khz then a bump at 5khz, but fairly flat in between there. I think that might not be a good thing for some people but it might be pretty pleasing to a lot. Just a guess.

 

[KJung]

I wonder if what you're seeing is the 1.5khz-4.5khz or so dip on the fAital charts. Like, it's got a bunch of stuff at 1khz then a bump at 5khz, but fairly flat in between there. I think that might not be a good thing for some people but it might be pretty pleasing to a lot. Just a guess.

Interesting! I love being involved in this thread (along with Greenboy and you and Alex, etc.). That is EXACTLY what I heard, and this particular cab (Deb's), reminds me more of a very clean, full range 112 with a soft dome tweeter (if I have that term right... the more 'paper cone' sounding type tweeter) versus the strong upper mids (that 2-4K thing) that I hear with that other driver (the '18sound' or whatever that is).

The tone of this mid driver sounds a bit more like a 'smoother, better, more sophisticated' two way box (by two way, I mean the typical 'driver/tweeter' thing), than the more 'even extension through the entire upper midrange the 18sound.

Both are great, and obviously with powerful enough EQ, you can probably get there with that 18sound. However, this one sat in a pretty good place with that amp set totally flat (again, I'm sure the F1/F500 isn't completely flat on the scope, but it seems very even to me and 'relatively transparent' from low to high). If anything, it is a little upper mid bumped, since on many cabs I dial down 800hz (moderate Q) around 3db or so.

 

[Jared Lash]

I have had the cab for 4 days now, and while it is a great cab (growly, punchy, grindy, organic, mid present, warm), I don't think it will work for dub IMO and IME. It should sound great for your trio though!

I think if you know how to eq for dub/reggae it'd be fine. Lots of people use cabs with far less low end capability for dub style music...this speaker will go lower than most 18's on the market. Because you have the very flexible B1500 5 band eq I think you could manage it. However, it's going to depend on whether you're doing drop tuning or not. Anything lower than drop D and I would skip the 3015s and go for an LF based cab.

That said, for a super flexible cab, a pair of the 12/6's pictured in this thread might be more suitable. Or a pair of 15/6s.

The 3015's are dear to my heart because they go so low and loud and are very light, but they do not go as low as the LF series.

You would want tweeters in the cabs most likely, with on/off switches, and to request a tuning of close to 55hz IMHO (and be firm about it .

Any other thoughts here? In terms of cabs being useful for dub the only real requirement is that it can pump out clear low end. The actual tone is much more about technique, EQing and even effects as I'll often use a fixed Low Pass Filter (I use the Moog) to eliminate highs. Really, if it can give me the low end, I can get the dub tone with just about any cab regardless of its inherent voicing.

The questions I have are:
(1) Would a 1x15 like this be articulate enough for my trio work?
(2) Does it have enough in the low end for dub stuff?
(3) Would two of them move enough air?
(4) Would the 3015LF be a better choice for what I'm describing?

If this is a setup that would work for me, the question is what head should I use? I can stick with the Carvin, but I really liked my LMII's tone for the jazz-pop trio. I think the LMII would be underpowered for this job so would something like the LM800 be the ticket?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[rpsands]

Very very interesting. I wonder if the fAital mids might be especially good at giving you that "full range woofer" sound on top of a LF driver that can go super low. I know you can do that sound with a 6nd410 also, if you scoop enough in the right spots, but if you're of the school of thought that voices the cabinet rather than the head, it might be well suited for you.

I do know you can't just slap a tweeter on a 3012LF/3015LF and call it good, so that mid definitely does something necessary in that cab (since if you cross a 3012/3015Lf over high enough to keep a tweeter safe it'll sound pretty mucky).

 

[KJung]

Any other thoughts here? In terms of cabs being useful for dub the only real requirement is that it can pump out clear low end. The actual tone is much more about technique, EQing and even effects as I'll often use a fixed Low Pass Filter (I use the Moog) to eliminate highs. Really, if it can give me the low end, I can get the dub tone with just about anything.

The questions I have are:
(1) Would a 1x15 like this be articulate enough for my trio work
(2) Does it have enough in the low end for dub stuff
(3) Would two of them move enough air?
(4) Would the 3015LF be a better choice for what I'm describing?

If this is a setup that would work for me, the question is what head should I use? I can stick with the Carvin, but I really liked my LMII's tone for the jazz-pop trio. I think the LMII would be underpowered for this job so would something like the LM800 be the ticket?

Thanks for any advice.

I'm probably as far away from the dub sort of thing as anyone, so take that context into account regarding my comments below.

My feeling is, a single full range 115 like Ryan's (which again, I love), running full range would sound quite punchy, aggressive and bright. There is a lot of stuff going on above 1K with that speaker, which again, results in it being balanced toward some mid and upper mid grind and warmth versus the big, smooth, deep low end with mellow mids.

One of those LF drivers with the top of the mids cut off by that 800hz crossover and a nice mid driver WITH AN ATTENUATOR would seem to be the ticket. One with a mid driver, and another LF15 in a one way cab for the loud, big dub tone would be a pretty cost effective way to go about this.

The single cab with the mid driver and the LF3015 would be plenty full range and deep for many stand-alone gigs at 8ohm with an SD800 or whatever. Adding a similarly sized cab with another 3015LF.. my gosh, I can't imagine how deep that would go, and more importantly how you could emphasize the dub while still maintaining note clarity, but no brightness or grind (which is my interpretation of the dub tone).

However, the very small, very punchy cab Ryan has would probably not do the trick. Two would probably have plenty low end for what you need, but man, there would still be a LOT going on up top.

Pure IMO there, based on a few different cabs I've played now with this general design.

 

[rpsands]

The questions I have are:
(1) Would a 1x15 like this be articulate enough for my trio work?
(2) Does it have enough in the low end for dub stuff?
(3) Would two of them move enough air?
(4) Would the 3015LF be a better choice for what I'm describing?

If this is a setup that would work for me, the question is what head should I use? I can stick with the Carvin, but I really liked my LMII's tone for the jazz-pop trio. I think the LMII would be underpowered for this job so would something like the LM800 be the ticket?

Thanks for any advice.

Question 1 I will leave for Ken mostly - it did sound very articulate to me

2) It's tough to say. If you boost the low mids/upper bass, then yes, it will take quite a lot above 80hz. If you're wanting to boost Acme territory it's not going to work great (30-60hz is the danger zone for this driver).

3) A pair of 3015's will get a LOT louder than an Acme B4. They should offer a bit more peak displacement and be 5-7db more sensitive or so - although not below around 80hz.

4) If I were you I would hedge my bets and get a single fEarful 15/6 from Don and then consider expansion later. A fEarful will be about as loud as a B4 and a lot lighter, and just about as low for the purposes of dub/reggae. Power it with your B1500.

If you were to go with the two 3015 stack, I would use the LMII - it would put out a lot of volume and the VLE knob is super suited to dubby tones.

If you go with the fEarful style 15/6 or a pair of 12/6's, I would use the B1500 probably.

The modular nature of the 3015 stack really appeals, and I think it would get the job done, but it's hard to know exactly what low end will please which people. The more I consider it, I think if you're going from a B4, you would be happiest with the LF cab. But one Fearful would be enough almost surely.

 

[rpsands]

One thing to keep in mind is that the top end of the 3015 is easily killed off with the LMII's VPF filter. That will really dub out the cab a lot

The Hartke that ryan has can't cut any top end, so I think that is a possible issue there too.

 

[KJung]

One thing to keep in mind is that the top end of the 3015 is easily killed off with the LMII's VPF filter. That will really dub out the cab a lot

The Hartke that ryan has can't cut any top end, so I think that is a possible issue there too.

+1 That definitely would 'darken things up' a bit. Just FYI, virtually all the MB heads have the VLE, so the SD800 would be able to cut up there also.

 

[rpsands]

+1 That definitely would 'darken things up' a bit. Just FYI, virtually all the MB heads have the VLE, so the SD800 would be able to cut up there also.

Sorry, I got them mixed up "vintage loudspeaker emulator" That is definitely my favorite thing about the LM/MB heads. Wish all my basses had a tone knob.

 

[KJung]

Sorry, I got them mixed up "vintage loudspeaker emulator" That is definitely my favorite thing about the LM/MB heads. Wish all my basses had a tone knob.

+1 Really nice option, especially for those with basses that don't have a passive tone control! I used to call those two filters all manner of names. VLF's and VPL's, etc.!

 

[Jared Lash]

+1 Really nice option, especially for those with basses that don't have a passive tone control! I used to call those two filters all manner of names. VLF's and VPL's, etc.!

I generally referred to it as "the awesome knob".

Thanks for the input KJung and rpsands (and Ryan Mohr). I have to say, the modular nature of a pair of lightweight 15s really appeals to me (and my back). And while I dig the Carvin, it is a beast of a head and while not unmanageable in terms of weight, carrying it for a while makes me appreciate the MB heads that much more.

What about using a normal 3015 (non-LF) like Ryan's for one cab and the 3015LF for the second cab?

 

[rpsands]

It'd work, but the 3015LF has some nasty stuff in the upper mids. You would want an 800hz-1000hz low pass on that cabinet most likely (or to roll a lot of VLE on).

The only real reason to use a 3015 is weight savings as you can get the cab close to 20lbs lighter without the midrange and with the smaller dimensions the 3015 needs.

If you're really concerned about weight, I think you might want to go with a pair of 12/6's - they're a lot lighter (comparable to the 3015, 10-15lbs lighter than the 3015LF/6nd410 cab) and not much quieter (around 3-4db sensitivity IIRC). They can definitely do dub and trio sounds both.

 

[Joe Smithberger]

OK, I know next to nothing about this stuff, but can a cab like Ryan's be modded with a low pass filter of some kind, inside the cab, to kill the non-linear part of the response? Does a crossover have to have the high frequency component hooked up?

I had a similar reaction to a Bag End 15 cab I had a while back. I was expecting thick syrupy tone and was surprised by the high mid/low treble honk that I got with that cabinet.

 

[rpsands]

A low pass filter is a lot cheaper and a lot easier in pedal form. I would assume that any decent pedal guy could put together a VLE knob in a pedal form for under 75 bucks (possibly even cheaper, mine was well less than this).

I actually bought a high pass pretty recently from GME and it rawks. Variable slope passive.

Doing it in the cabinet costs a lot more because it has to handle fairly high wattage relative to the tiny 1v or less input signal from your bass.

 

[Jared Lash]

I decided to just drop Don an email with my situation and see what he suggests.

As a side note, if I go with either a pair of 15's or a 12/6 (and possibly a second one later) I would wonder if the LMII would have the power I'd need. Would it? And if not, how close is the SD800 to the LMII in terms of tone? I've read a number of threads but most were from before people had actually tried that amp and the few with personal experience seemed inconclusive to me.

 

[rpsands]

If your MB 15 combo was loud enough for your trio I think the LMII -> 12/6 would be loud enough. Not sure on the LMII into two 12/6's for the reggae deal.

A pair of 12/6's would be around 96-97db in real sensitivity so roughly comparable to the Acme.

I'd say fire up your LMII -> Acme and see if it's loud enough. I expect the answer will be no, and you'd want to either have a louder amp (SD1200 or a second LMII .

 

[Jared Lash]

I'd say fire up your LMII -> Acme and see if it's loud enough. I expect the answer will be no, and you'd want to either have a louder amp (SD1200 or a second LMII .

I can already answer that. Nope.

Great tone, not enough volume.