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Low Down Sound Cab Club started!
- Thread starter agfrag
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Don's first love is 8" loaded cabs, and he's been making them for years. I believe he even has his own proprietary drivers from Eminence.
I don't think he would be interested in 'replicating' someone elses design, and like many other cab makers/designers, I believe he finds the 'transmission line' design much more trouble that it is worth (at least I remember having that conversation a while ago with him).
Ric Vice's little three way neo is killer (I've heard it live with his DB and Walter Woods). It's a bit brighter than the VL208, and I actually like it better for EB.
Ken Don used a slot porting that he'd been wanting to try for a long time on my cab. It's very similar to a GB 212X, so I would say he's open to trying designs that are already working while putting his twist on it.
Looks like he has an Acugroove copy pic'd on his website too.
I like that slot porting on your LDS 15/6. I hope that mid-sized vertical layout is working well for you.
Something I've been curious about is how an LDS version of the Whappo Jr would sound with Eminence 3012HO and 3012LF drivers in separate tuned subenclosures, the 18 Sound 6ND410 for mids, and a Selenium tweeter with lo/mid cross at 1200 Hz and mid/hi cross at 4000 Hz. Using a 7.0 cu-ft box 4" narrower and 5" taller than the Whappo Jr with about 3.5 cu-ft for the 3012HO (tuned 52 Hz) and 3.0 cu-ft for the 3012LF (tuned 44 Hz) should provide decent response from each driver. The Whappo Jr is highly regarded but pretty smooth up top. The 6ND410 with Selenium tweeter should provide good definition and some sheen up high. The 3012HO is very efficient and the 3012LF should add depth and low end extension. If the weight of this cab could be kept under 65# it might be worth trying. I understand the concept of pairing similar drivers but the Whappo Jr proves that this concept works if properly engineered.
Something I've been curious about is how an LDS version of the Whappo Jr would sound with Eminence 3012HO and 3012LF drivers in separate tuned subenclosures, the 18 Sound 6ND410 for mids, and a Selenium tweeter with lo/mid cross at 1200 Hz and mid/hi cross at 4000 Hz. Using a 7.0 cu-ft box 4" narrower and 5" taller than the Whappo Jr with about 3.5 cu-ft for the 3012HO (tuned 52 Hz) and 3.0 cu-ft for the 3012LF (tuned 44 Hz) should provide decent response from each driver. The Whappo Jr is highly regarded but pretty smooth up top. The 6ND410 with Selenium tweeter should provide good definition and some sheen up high. The 3012HO is very efficient and the 3012LF should add depth and low end extension. If the weight of this cab could be kept under 65# it might be worth trying. I understand the concept of pairing similar drivers but the Whappo Jr proves that this concept works if properly engineered.
I played through the rig a lot today. I must have tried every possible EQ setting on the LH500. I tried boosting the preamp with my BBE Opto Stomp set to no compression and full volume. But, the sound is still really "boxy". The low end sounds too tight and super compressed. I just can't get it to open up. When I play an open E I can't feel the fundamental. There's no thump or oomph to the sound.
I've played through the rig with all my basses so that's not the problem. I'm really beginning to think there could be some sort of mechanical problem. I just re-listened to Ken's soundclip and that sounds so much fatter, deeper and open in the low end and low mids. Compared to that clip, my tone is brighter and much more boxy. That shouldn't be with a fatter, warmer, tubier head and a much mellower bass (alder/RW J bass with dead SS strings.).
There's no chance I can return this because I had to REALLY convince my parents to let me buy this, and I thought this rig would really be a lock for the warm/fat/thick/round/organic/growly old school, but still relatively articulate tone I dig. Does anybody have any suggestions. I will post soundclips as soon as possible.
I've played through the rig with all my basses so that's not the problem. I'm really beginning to think there could be some sort of mechanical problem. I just re-listened to Ken's soundclip and that sounds so much fatter, deeper and open in the low end and low mids. Compared to that clip, my tone is brighter and much more boxy. That shouldn't be with a fatter, warmer, tubier head and a much mellower bass (alder/RW J bass with dead SS strings.).
There's no chance I can return this because I had to REALLY convince my parents to let me buy this, and I thought this rig would really be a lock for the warm/fat/thick/round/organic/growly old school, but still relatively articulate tone I dig. Does anybody have any suggestions. I will post soundclips as soon as possible.
Graphic eq pedal with a big fat boost at 80-180hz.
There is no way you are going to feel the fundamental because this cab is probably -10db or more by 40hz...and on the flipside your Fender 12 is probably -10db by 60hz, so stop thinking of it in terms of the fundamental. The 3015LF or 3012LF are the only real way you are going to feel fundamental.
There is no way you are going to feel the fundamental because this cab is probably -10db or more by 40hz...and on the flipside your Fender 12 is probably -10db by 60hz, so stop thinking of it in terms of the fundamental. The 3015LF or 3012LF are the only real way you are going to feel fundamental.
+1... very little 'new under the sun'. If you want 'side ports' like the GB 212x or whatever within reason, he would do that. I'm pretty sure he would not bother with a transmission line design, and I guess EA's designs aren't even true transmission lines anyway from what I understand.
It is a punchy, aggressive cab, and surely is not a typical 'old school' 115. I would try a couple different heads with it to isolate the issue. As you mentioned and hear on my clips, the cab inherently has plenty of low end to my ear, however, sometimes the 'mix and match' results in a hole just in the wrong place for our ears.
It sounds like something is not quite working with the voicing of those two pieces of gear for you. It's always a 'hit and miss' sort of thing. If you can try that cab with the MB LMIII, then you would know, since that head has even more low end than the F500 I used for that clip, and a smoother, somewhat more 'clean but old school' tone. The LH500 might not have enough EQ power to both soften the upper mids of that aggressive box, and pump in a bit of upper bass to fatten it up. I LOVE the LH500 in general, but sometimes a particularly head and a particular cab, no matter how wonderful, just don't quite 'speak to each other'.
I would definitely get the whole rig in a few more mixes before you decide, and also try that cab with a couple different heads. I was quite blown away by that cab, quite frankly, even though it doesn't represent my typical tone.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
The more I think about it the more I think a higher tuning might be the solution to getting the cab to sound right without a pedal/eq, but I dunno for sure.
I definitely think you should try boosting the region we're talking about first with a pedal or some other eq unit (maybe try running the Fender's fx send into the fx return of the Hartke, with it eq'd the way you want).
EQ pedals are pretty darn cheap if you determine it'll fix it...or a Sansamp BDDI might do it too.
I definitely think you should try boosting the region we're talking about first with a pedal or some other eq unit (maybe try running the Fender's fx send into the fx return of the Hartke, with it eq'd the way you want).
EQ pedals are pretty darn cheap if you determine it'll fix it...or a Sansamp BDDI might do it too.
I am pretty sure this is a waste of time. There would be a point possibly (a very expensive one) if you were using a 4-way design with a crappier midrange.
However, there are literally no frequencies at which the 3012HO really outperforms the 3012LF by enough to warrant it which would not be better served by being handled by the 6nd410.
You would be far better off with two 3012LFs. The Whappo whatever has never been compared to a 1212/6 but I would lay my money heavily on the 1212/6 to win that shootout.
The 6nd410 STILL has to be padded back some to work with two 3012LF's IIRC, even crossed over relatively low, but GB can correct that if I am wrong.
Hello folks!
Don designed/built me a lil ol' LDS cab based on the Fearful 12/6.
It has a 3012LF and a Faital W6N8-120 mid-driver. Don did some experimenting and thought this particular mid-driver sounded best with this cab.
I also specifically requested the Ralf-version of the Passinwind 12/6 crossover and that the cab be made as light as possible. It's covered in burgundy tolex and has black grill cloth.
Don is going to try to bring this cab for testing at KJung's place Monday. Hopefully Ken will have time for that and be nice enough to post a pic and give the community his take on the cab sound.
A heartfelt thanks to all the folks who generously share their time, energy, and experience on the talkbass Fearful/LDS forums--I've have and will continue to learn a lot from your chatter!
Hello. Here's a clip using the same bass, amp (Sadowsky and MB F500 set flat) and room as the clip of Ryan's cab last week, of your very nice 112L/Faital 6.5 cab. You will hear that, with that 'L' 112 and very nice sounding Faital mid driver (set at 11 o'clock) that this cab is smooth, clean, and 'accurate' to my ear... plenty of top end if you want it.
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Another nice old school cab by Don that just works perfectly in taming that uber aggresive Sadowsky!
I am pretty sure those Faital mid drivers are going to surprise the heck out of people - I think they have some kind of issues with their measurement stuff, because all the reports I hear are that they are excellent. Makes me really want to try the 5" midrange
I am pretty sure those Faital mid drivers are going to surprise the heck out of people - I think they have some kind of issues with their measurement stuff, because all the reports I hear are that they are excellent. Makes me really want to try the 5" midrange
Do you think that the 5"er could keep up with the a 3012LF? It's got a pretty high SPL but it only takes 80W and it's 12 ohms.
Yes, pretty positive it would. All criticisms of the driver's measured plot aside, it should be plenty sensitive and handle enough wattage. I think you'd want to pad it back 2db even with the ohm difference which would increase its power handling a lot. Crossover experts would need to weigh in on that though
Thanks so much Ken for posting the pics and the sound clip. I really appreciate you doing that! If you're ever in Toronto I owe you a big back bacon and egg brunch maybe with a good Belgian beer.
I had originally requested the Eminence 6A mid driver or the 6ND410 (?) or the B&C 6md38 that Passinwind used in his 12/6. I wasn't sure about the Faital mid-driver, but at some point, I felt it wasn't wise to interrupt the flow of the river and that I should just let the master wield his craft. And, from what I see/hear in Ken's pics/clip, Don did a great job!!
I had originally requested the Eminence 6A mid driver or the 6ND410 (?) or the B&C 6md38 that Passinwind used in his 12/6. I wasn't sure about the Faital mid-driver, but at some point, I felt it wasn't wise to interrupt the flow of the river and that I should just let the master wield his craft. And, from what I see/hear in Ken's pics/clip, Don did a great job!!
I am tellin ya that cabinet is the wave of the micro future
The last line really grabbed my attention. A while ago I made a thread looking for cab suggestions. I was using a Markbass Jeff Berlin combo for a piano/drums/bass trio and am still using a B1500/Acme B4 rig for my dub band and was looking to find one rig that could do both. Your (rpsand's) suggestion in that thread was
And I am seriously considering this. A pair of 8 ohm 15's where I could use one for smaller gigs and two when I need to really move some air is really appealing. Especially given their weight and the back trouble I've had of late.
Any thoughts (from rpsands or anyone else) on having Don build me a pair of 15's for what I'm trying to do.
I have had the cab for 4 days now, and while it is a great cab (growly, punchy, grindy, organic, mid present, warm), I don't think it will work for dub IMO and IME. It should sound great for your trio though!
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