My New Studio Build (perhaps overly detailed)

[akrachanko]

Thanks! Fortunately the only tasks left at this point are to resolve the audio dropouts occurring with my interfaces. No more construction for me!

I do IT for a living, and I'll tell you, there are days when doing construction sounds much better than troubleshooting tech issues. One thing it may be valuable to look into is the required bandwidth (data transfer speed) of the Apogee Element 88, and compare it to the claimed bandwidth of the Thunderbolt ports on your system. Two audio interfaces could be pushing the bandwidth limits of your Thunderbolt ports, depending on if they're Thunderbolt 2 or 3.

Just a thought for you. I've fought with audio interfaces in the past, and the problems always seem to be more obscure than any other device I've worked with. One time, I fixed an audio interface problem by disabling Bluetooth. Figure that one out. I'll say it again my friend, good luck! Can't wait to hear some music come out of that place!

 

[silky smoove]

Two audio interfaces could be pushing the bandwidth limits of your Thunderbolt ports, depending on if they're Thunderbolt 2 or 3.

That's an interesting consideration. The ports are Thunderbolt 3 so they should be pretty robust, but I'll look into it.

 

[DirtDog]

Apogee doesn't sell a dedicated preamp or set of preamps. Regardless, their are tons of excellent preamps around so it doesn't need to be theirs.


I'll never opt for that avenue due to space and cost limitations. I've got a maximum of five rack spaces I can allocate to interfaces currently and can't put in a larger rack without needing to relocate the rack which I don't want to do. With that in mind I need 16 channels of simultaneous input and can't justify spending more than $2,500 until the studio starts making money on a regular basis. If the inputs are rear-mounted then I also have to factor in a 16-channel snake box as well. Sticking with USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 my options appear to be limited to Apogee Element and Focusrite Clarrett. There are some Presonus, MOTU and Zoom options that would technically work but I don't like their preamps or their DA as much based on the ones I've tried in the past. None of them have integration with Logic that's as seamless as Apogee.


Unless they will. They're still under warranty and I'm actively working on it with Apogee. If we end up at the point of "they ain't gonna work" then so be it, but I'm not ready to accept that eventuality at this point. Maybe that's blind optimism on my part.


They ran them together and separately without being able to register a single dropout using the same version of OSX that I'm running.

I just ordered the Presonus 16r so I can do location recording (with the band) using just my MBP and Presonus Capture to get up to 16 tracks of raw audio. ’ll do post processing using Logic on my iMac.

I hope I won’t be disappointed in the Presonus unit. Looks like a slick piece of gear... the features seem to meet my requirements.

 

[silky smoove]

I hope I won’t be disappointed in the Presonus unit. Looks like a slick piece of gear... the features seem to meet my requirements.

I'm sure it will be great. All of the Presonus gear I've used has had a certain characteristic to it that feels a little "soft" up top compared to Apogee which comparatively feels more lively and detailed. I have no idea which one is more accurate. The Presonus might be a little rolled off up top, or the Apogee might be a little hyped. Regardless I have a subjective preference towards the sound of the Apogee compared to the Presonus, but to be 100% clear, I think Presonus makes excellent products. My backup/emergency interface is cheapo Presonus Studio 24c and it does a fine job when I need it.

 

[silky smoove]

Trying out the George Massenburg overheads setup on a session tonight. Sounded good when we soundchecked. We’ll be tracking tomorrow which will be the real test.

 

[silky smoove]

Apogee has setup a return for my interfaces and they’re providing two replacement units. If these have the dropouts as well I’ll have to admit that they were right and there is in fact something incompatible with my system and this particular model of interface. If they work without issue I’ll know that there was something wrong with these.

Regardless, I just want them to function. I really don’t care about being right or wrong. I just want the goods!

 

[silky smoove]

The talkback mic is proving to be a major convenience.

 

[silky smoove]

Tracking bass for my modern RnB band’s debut single. I ended up with just a safety DI and the U87 at about 3 o’clock on the cone’s edge placed about 3” back from the grill.

My wife captured me through the sound door glass.

 

[silky smoove]

Final mic setup for the session. Sounds great! I played my EMG JVX loaded Jazz (Warmoth, Status-Graphite, Babicz, Hipshot) with a set of fresh GHS Balanced Nickels (107), low action and a moderate right hand to coax a little grind onto the bass tracks.

 

[braindead0]

Regarding dropouts.. you probably have already done this... however.... just in case.....

Disable everything on your computer that you can and still have the audio interface functional and see if that resolves the issue. Remove all un-necessary peripherals, if using wireless keyboard/mouse scrounge up a wired set. If you can setup a test scenario that should be able to duplicate without having a monitor, unplug the monitor. Anything you can do to free up system resources (...dare i say.. close TB ;-)

If at all possible find someone else with a similar computer and try that. If you can manage that you should be able to determine likely area of the issue (computer or not).

Perhaps buy a thunderbolt interface card and move to that, that would eliminate the motherboard thunderbolt interface as an issue and I think the cards are relatively inexpensive.

Intermittent problems are often hardware related, heat/vibration/coincidence can play a role. The complexity of hardware these days typically means swapping parts until you find the part that the problem follows...

Good luck... wish I was in the area, I love solving problems like this....

 

[silky smoove]

Perhaps buy a thunderbolt interface card and move to that, that would eliminate the motherboard thunderbolt interface as an issue and I think the cards are relatively inexpensive.

This is the only thing from your list I haven't already tried, and not something that would work with a 2019 Mac Mini. There's no room for expansion cards.

Regardless, Apogee is sending me two new units to exchange for mine. If the behavior is identical then I'll know that they were right and there is some sort of conflict with the interface and my computer. If it works properly I'll know that I was right and there was a physical problem with those particular units.

 

[beans-on-toast]

It never hurts to check the EFI firmware revision on the computer.

Which EFI firmware should your Mac be using? (version 4)

 

[silky smoove]

It never hurts to check the EFI firmware revision on the computer.

Which EFI firmware should your Mac be using? (version 4)

Interesting. I've not moved to Catalina yet as Apogee is still in beta for their software and firmware. The version 3 firmware, which is supported by the Mojave OS I have currently have installed, has a list of supported versions. I'll check them tonight.

 

[mrface2112]

and the U87

Is that a real deal U87 or a clone? Looks nice, either way.

 

[silky smoove]

Is that a real deal U87 or a clone? Looks nice, either way.

It’s a clone of the original so U87 circuit with period correct components including some hard to source Styroflex components. I’ve compared it to a buddy’s real deal vintage U87 and it’s very close. It sounds nothing like his modern U87ai which have more in common with cheaper LDCs and their seemingly requisite hyped upper midrange and lower treble response. A vintage U87 sounds shockingly similar to a Shure SM7B with the windscreen removed, which is fairly mellow compared to most LDCs.

 

[mrface2112]

It’s a clone of the original so U87 circuit with period correct components including some hard to source Styroflex components.

I'd love to know more about this mic! Was it a kit, someone's DIY, etc?

I've got a couple MicParts mics I've put together (S-12 and T-47) and have been eyeing their S3-87 kit for a U87 clone. I've got a ton of other mics as well, but that T-47 handles all of my vocal duties. That into a Classic API (CAPI) VP28->Hairball 576 is a killer vocal channel.

 

[BAG]

View attachment 3581919

I'm surprised you don't have something on that acoustic to mute it. Do you not get any ringing notes from it when other instruments are playing?

 

[silky smoove]

I'd love to know more about this mic! Was it a kit, someone's DIY, etc?

Vintage Microphone PCB Kit D-87 was the build plan. There's a lot of variability based on the capsule and transformer used. I built two of them with a stereo matched pair of capsules. I went with the upper end components, but not the absolute top. I also used a nice powder coated brass SYT-5 mic body rather than a cheap one from a donor mic. Both mics ended up costing me about $700 for the pair in components, and then a bottle of absinthe to have a buddy build them for me

I'm surprised you don't have something on that acoustic to mute it. Do you not get any ringing notes from it when other instruments are playing?

It's a big enough space that it's a non-issue for the narrow range of sources that are loud enough to resonate it, but not so loud that the resonance can be heard over them. I had a singer in there last night absolutely belting and you couldn't hear any resonance over her take. Drums are way too loud for the resonance to be heard. The bass tracks I did over the weekend didn't get it either. I think the notion of an acoustic in the live room resonating is largely overblown by online reports. Drums in the live room are another story. I either break them down and store them in the vestibule, or I'll damp all of the heads with a bunch of heavy towels if I need to leave them setup for something.

 

[mrface2112]

Both mics ended up costing me about $700 for the pair in components, and then a bottle of absinthe to have a buddy build them for me

That's actually not bad at all, considering. DIY might save you some money, but it certainly isn't "cheap", at least not when you do it properly.

I built a handwired '64 Deluxe Reverb clone (with a revamped "Normal" channel for more crunch) a few years ago, based on the AA763 circuit and ended up spending about $1000 by the time all was said and done for pretty much top end componends. But OMG what a great amp and far better than any of the Fender reissues, even if it did take ages to push that project over the finish line.

I appreciate the info on those mics--I've seen their site before.........I'll definitely check into them for my next project!

 

[silky smoove]

I appreciate the info on those mics--I've seen their site before.........I'll definitely check into them for my next project!

They don't make it easy to get all of the necessary data, parts, plan steps, etc. The plans are a bit lacking and require a lot of digging on your own. The forums are very helpful, but not well sorted. I can't even get the pages to load anymore, so they might have taken it down. A great product if you want to do the legwork.