NCD! Avatar SB126.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bordinco90, Jun 2, 2019.


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  1. Blues Bass 2

    Blues Bass 2 Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2001
    Davenport Iowa
    I have built several cabs with Jerry McNutts designs and they are all very good , no guesswork . I built all of them for myself but have sold a couple to bandmates and one with a Beta 12A to our own Dr Cheese . Nothing but much respect for Jerry , cool you got to meet him . These are my gig cabs , Deltalite 2515 II speakers in cabs built to his specs . 20200701_185604.jpg
     
  2. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    Nice job. Very Aguillar looking.
     
  3. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    Eons ago I had the sb-112 and a B210 stack. I had just come from a Schroeder 4x10 and then a 21012. The Avatar stack didn't feel like a down grade. Dumped the stack in favor of a B212 with the Delta LF's. Pulled the tweet and installed a galaxy audio 5" mid. Made a chamber for it out of a margarine tub and glue. It actually sounded pretty darned good. Probably my fave of the Avatars I've had until the sb-126. In spite of my critique, it is ridiculously good when considering the alternatives.
     
  4. jchrisk1

    jchrisk1 Supporting Member

    Nov 15, 2009
    Northern MI
    You're saying you didn't like the B212 butter than the sb126? :roflmao:
     
    jeff7bass likes this.
  5. jchrisk1

    jchrisk1 Supporting Member

    Nov 15, 2009
    Northern MI
    Or was it margarinely butter?
     
  6. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    wise guy...
    The Sb-126 is the better cab for me. The 212 with Delta LF's and particularly after my mod, sounded great but it was a PITA weight and size wise.

    The sb126 is reminiscent of my old fearful 12.6 in many respects. That is not a bad thing at all. Not perfect but there is a lot to like.
     
  7. jeff7bass

    jeff7bass

    Apr 9, 2009
    Boo! ;)
     
  8. bordinco90

    bordinco90

    Dec 7, 2011
    SW Louisiana
    I've always wanted to try the Avatar 212. How do they sound compared to say a 410? I figured the 410 would be louder.
     
  9. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    The 410 has slam for sure. I liked the LF loaded 212 more for tone. For my uses, the 212 itself could get louder than I would generally need on stage so I would opt for tone...

    Note - I also had a neo loaded 212 which absolutely sucked. First generation neo drivers I think, 2512-1 and they were significantly improved in the -2 version. I think they are just the wrong drivers for that cabinet.

    If Avatar was a long term thing for me, 2 of the sb-126 with 3012 LF would be a formidable modular easy to move rig with the ability to get stupid loud... a variable hpf like that in my Mesa D-800+ or from Broughton will clean up the low end just fine.
     
    bordinco90 likes this.
  10. HaphAsSard

    HaphAsSard

    Dec 1, 2013
    Italia
    Hey, welcome back sir! I'm glad one of the most knowledgeable posters in :Amps is back in the fold.
     
    bgavin likes this.
  11. Thanks.
    Been away a long time... cancer, demented parents, ad nauseum.
    Got all that behind me now.
     
  12. HaphAsSard

    HaphAsSard

    Dec 1, 2013
    Italia
    I see. I'm not glad about the circumstances of your sabbatical but, again, I am of its conclusion.
     
    bgavin likes this.
  13. Those 2515's are a real nice sounding bass guitar driver. Nice cabs.
     
  14. lefthandbass17

    lefthandbass17

    Dec 6, 2003
    I have a question about the 2512, I was interested in it because the Avatar site says it has 250W RMS power handling. I have a Carvin BX500 (500W RMS @ 4/2ohms), and potentially want to power 2 of these cabinets. I'm assuming the 2512 would be the better choice for this?
     
  15. abarson

    abarson

    Nov 6, 2003
    Santa Cruz
    You missed the part where the Carvin BX500 is rated as follows:
    - 300w RMS at 8 ohms, 500w at 4 ohms and 500w at 2 ohms

    The speaker output selector button is set to the out position for any load greater than or equal to 4 ohms, pressed in for 2-3 ohms. See page 3 of your manual:
    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0476/5297/files/BX500_manual.pdf?17506477941152022579

    Avatar offers the Eminence Deltalite 2512 as either a 4 or 8 ohms speaker. I recommend going with 8 ohms so that it's easier to add more speakers over time. A single cabinet would present an 8 ohms load, two cabinets would present a 4 ohms load, 3 cabinets would work with the 2 ohms setting. You will be fine in any circumstance, just use caution and common sense.

    The stock Delta 12LF is rated for 500 watts RMS, but weighs considerably more. Both 4 and 8 ohms models are available; see my comments above on which to choose. There is some tonal difference between the neodymium and ceramic magnets. It's up to you which is better for your tone, and whether weight savings is a sincere consideration.
     
    BasturdBlaster likes this.
  16. lefthandbass17

    lefthandbass17

    Dec 6, 2003
    I guess I left that out because I planned on running two 4ohm cabinets, I didn't think about the potential for three. I haven't played in almost 10 years or so, sold all of my stuff. I used to run a Carvin DCM1000 @ 2ohms into a B210NEO and some kind of Ampeg 15" cabinet. Now that I'm getting back into it, my instinct has me going back to Carvin and Avatar, except this time I'm looking to consolidate (no external pre amp, compressor, etc.)

    I guess I may be thinking incorrectly, is it not important to match the RMS rating of the amp to the RMS rating of the cabinets being used? Weight isn't a big concern for me. Seeing as the cab was designed for the 12LF, I may be inclined to use it instead.
     
  17. jeff7bass

    jeff7bass

    Apr 9, 2009
    What did they give you for your SB-126? Sam Ash just offered me 100 bucks for my mint, blue tolex SB-112 NEO and I basically told him to pound sand.
     
  18. View attachment 3987337 Power ratings are factual, but used as marketing gibberish.
    "1,000 watts music power" is marketing B.S. that sounds more impressive than "500 watts continuous".
    These are maximum power ratings for the voice coil at 1,000 Hz, before the coil melts into goo.
    Since you don't play at 1,000 Hz... this is just baloney.

    Cone excursion is what limits the amount of practical power you can input to your cab.
    This is where proper tuning comes into play.
    Power handling ability in a vented box drops DRASTICALLY below the tuning frequency.

    If you have a vented box tuned at 52 Hz, it will not handle very much input power at all for low E (41 Hz), or worse for low B (31 Hz). The cone will travel beyond its mechanical limits and destroy itself.

    #1 - understand the lowest note you will play
    #2 - understand how much power the cab will actually accept down to this note.
    #3 - understand how much noise you need to make, add cabs accordingly.

    I do not subscribe to the 4-ohm cabs when an 8-ohm is available.
    If I need to add a 2nd cab, many amps won't run properly with a 2-ohm load.
    You lose nothing with 8-ohm cabs over 4-ohm, because most amps put out far more power than the cab can accept.

    The image below is the Eminence design for the Delta 12LFa.
    This is most likely the one used for the Avatar SB126 I just bought.
    My criteria is 41 Hz as the lowest note.
    I can input a maximum of 79 watts at 41 Hz, before I exceed the cone travel.

    Delta 12LFa Vented McNutt Large.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
    lefthandbass17 likes this.
  19. lefthandbass17

    lefthandbass17

    Dec 6, 2003
    Hmm, now I am confused. How do I find out #2? #1 and #3 are easy, low E and right now I'm just using it for practice but I want to have the potential to do small or medium gigs, nothing huge, probably not outdoors.

    Edit: I found the design specs... looks like cone displacement is well off the charts at 500W, so I think the 12LF will be fine.

    The cone travel is Xmax right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  20. You get the most flexibility from multiple cabs.

    Cone excursion increases 4x for each doubling of input power.
    This same cab is only good for 25 watts at 31 Hz.
    Going down low and loud is not easy to attain.

    The Delta 12LFa (8-ohm) is the commercial off the shelf version.
    If you blow one, you can order one from Speaker Hardware, etc.

    The NEOs are different.
    These are proprietary drivers built by Eminence for Avatar, etc.
    Each is tailored to the cab design, and is what differentiates an Avatar from a Bergantino.

    Delta 12LF is just a speaker in a properly designed box.
    It isn't anything proprietary or "boutique".

    Xmax is the linear max movement of the cone.
    Xlim is the max mechanical limit before it self-destructs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
    jeff7bass and abarson like this.
  21. Primary

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    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Oct 17, 2021

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