Never Ordering a Schroeder Cab Again

[BadExample]

From what the OP said, that's exactly what he set out to do before the seller convinced him to buy the more complex system he didn't really want. Should we blame the OP for that?

Other than the protruding screw which might cause an interference in fit, I think Jorg delivered as promised.

IIRC OP claimed a box would be provided that would allow him to run 2 x 4 Ohm cabs at 4 Ohms, which is pretty much the argument here. But wait,

Jorg then told me that he had developed a box that would enable me to utilize both 4 ohm cabs with an amp that could only handle a minimum 4ohm load, and that the box had been thoroughly tested and was trustworthy.

A serial box, which this is likely to be, would fit the above promise, with the only question being the protruding screw that @Passinwind pointed out. If Charlie says it's a problem, it probably is. That doesn't mean the box wasn't tested. Most testing is done before final assembly, although some final tests should be done after full assembly. Don't expect that kind of QC from a boutique company though, or the quality that is natural by mass production.

What happened between Jorg and OP? We don't know and I don't care. Not my money and I don't sleep with either (thank God).

We do know OP wrote off Jorg and Co. as a vendor. Won't buy, won't use, doesn't want the label on his stage. I respect that.

What we don't know is if Jorg wrote off the customer first. I also respect that too. Believe it or not, that is a thing. I've done it in a very, very word of mouth reputation sensitive industry, and only with careful thought and consulting with the VP of sales and my supervisor, the VP of Engineering. There are customers that just don't get it, and at some point the cost of dealing with them, free stuff, excessive support and service labor exceeds all profit margins AND the less tangible aspects like bad mouthing the company, upsetting employees, etc. I'm not saying this is what happened, or that the OP did anything to deserve this, but it does happen and it is an existential business decision. Many small companies have fallen from failure to make this decision correctly. Larger companies can absorb more and may or may not be more lenient. Smaller companies tend to dive into one or the other extreme, either being bad. Do what's reasonable.

OK, so you asked if we should blame the OP. Here's my question for you, hypothetical, not saying this is what happened. If Jorg already fulfilled his obligation, and the OP is just mystified by the complexity of speakon and can't figure it out, and he has the choice to refund the money to the OP and get back 9 month + old cabs that probably can't be sold at cost, maybe offer to replace the drivers at a huge loss, or make payroll to feed your beloved workers (they are in a small company), not to mention retain the investment in developing their skills, what exactly would you do? Another hint, not paying your workers is suicide.

If you don't mind, I'll take the liberty of asking a second question. Have you ever worked in a small manufacturing company or a service department? Not meant to be insulting, but it could change your perspective. Every time I go through a grocery checkout, I great the worker and treat them like a friend. They have a pretty bad job, and they don't smash my bread

 

[beans-on-toast]

Every time I go through a grocery checkout, I greet the worker and treat them like a friend. They have a pretty bad job, and they don't smash my bread

In life, I avoid that by making my own bread.

 

[jthisdell]

I still cannot understand how if the OP wanted two 8ohm cabs why he did not order two 8ohm cabs? When the seller wanted to sell two 4ohm cabs the correct response is, "No, I want two 8ohm cabs. Period." If the seller does not understand that it boggles that you would want to buy what the seller wants to sell instead of what the buyer wants to buy. It is like going to a restaurant and ordering a steak. The chef comes out and says he has a special on chicken that is fabulous, it has a special sauce that makes it taste like steak. The diner says OK I'll have the chicken. The chef serves the chicken and the diner says Oh, I wanted steak.

Why you would accept some unspecified box" to make your chicken steak is beyond me. Order the steak. Buying cabs is not something you do every day. Order what you want.

 

[BadExample]

I still cannot understand how if the OP wanted two 8ohm cabs why he did not order two 8ohm cabs? When the seller wanted to sell two 4ohm cabs the correct response is, "No, I want two 8ohm cabs. Period." If the seller does not understand that it boggles that you would want to buy what the seller wants to sell instead of what the buyer wants to buy. It is like going to a restaurant and ordering a steak. The chef comes out and says he has a special on chicken that is fabulous, it has a special sauce that makes it taste like steak. The diner says OK I'll have the chicken. The chef serves the chicken and the diner says Oh, I wanted steak.

Why you would accept some unspecified box" to make your chicken steak is beyond me. Order the steak. Buying cabs is not something you do every day. Order what you want.

Good point! Sorry OP. I would have seriously questioned the magic box, but then, I took it the responsibility to educate myself. Most don't.

 

[12bass]

OK, so you asked if we should blame the OP. Here's my question for you, hypothetical, not saying this is what happened. If Jorg already fulfilled his obligation, and the OP is just mystified by the complexity of speakon and can't figure it out, and he has the choice to refund the money to the OP and get back 9 month + old cabs that probably can't be sold at cost, maybe offer to replace the drivers at a huge loss, or make payroll to feed your beloved workers (they are in a small company), not to mention retain the investment in developing their skills, what exactly would you do? Another hint, not paying your workers is suicide.

If you don't mind, I'll take the liberty of asking a second question. Have you ever worked in a small manufacturing company or a service department? Not meant to be insulting, but it could change your perspective. Every time I go through a grocery checkout, I great the worker and treat them like a friend. They have a pretty bad job, and they don't smash my bread

Yes I have... however, motivated reasoning is not going to help this argument (i.e. I'm not going to skew my position because I'm hypothetically losing money on allegedly "bad" customers). Generally, when I've worked in such a capacity I've tried to treat people how I'd like to be treated if I were the customer. As it appears, the customer in this case was pushed into buying a product he didn't really want and found too complex to use (and possibly with a manufacturing defect in the series box), when the whole situation would never have occurred at all if he had simply received what he initially asked for....

 

[CheapTrickFanatic]

My goodness! I never expected to get such a debate going, from simply sharing my experience doing business with Schroeder. I'm particularly surprised at how deeply offended (for lack of a better word) some of you guys seem to be, at my assessment of the transaction. Almost a degree of anger, rolling around here. I'm also surprised at how much of what I have gone out of my way to clarify has gone unread. It's almost as if some guys lightly skim through posts, get angry, and type away.

I want to clarify, for yet the third time; I am not angry or "butt hurt" (lol) with Jorg. I'm not "venting" on Talkbass because I'm a pussy who is trying to bad-mouth a cabinet manufacturer because of my own inadequacies and ignorance. I am simply a bass player, who is sharing my personal experience with Schroeder cabs. Again, and, as I've stated a couple of times, I have no problem with folks who love Jorg and Schroeder cabs. God bless you! That's great! But, that doesn't mean that I can't share, what I felt to be, a less-than-optimal experience with Jorg. If you can't handle hearing a genuine and honest critique, then ignore this post. Simple as that. Schroeder Cabs will keep doing what they do, and so will we all. This is simply my experience. So, for those of us who are all worked up, just please calm down. Also, thank you, to those of you who have actually read what I have written, and tried to understand or asked for further clarification. There does seem to be a couple of you guys who almost seem to be WANTING to misunderstand... I'm not exactly sure what that's all about. Odd. Maybe you love Jorg and Schroeder cabs? Or, perhaps, you assume I'm misleading folks? Not sure?

Now, I'm not sure how to proceed, as I keep reading incorrect takes on my situation. I suppose I'll simply reiterate my main point, for lack of any other idea; my beef with Jorg was the fact that he recommended I purchase 4ohm cabs, with the addition of the "box" that would enable me to accomplish running the two cabs with a 4ohm head. The box (which we have been jokingly referring to as the "magic box"... lighten up, it's a joke) was promised to arrive with the first cab. The 15/8. That way, I could run the cab with any other 4ohm cab or with a future Schroeder 12/10. The box was not shipped with the 15/8, as promised. I had to chase Jorg down for it. Seemed to be some confusion on his side, at the post office? Or, some such thing? I can't specifically recall when I finally received the box? Maybe a month later? Or longer than that? I'll have to go back an look at the emails. At the time, I started to feel irritated, as I was told he'd throw the box in with the 15/8. I didn't understand why I had to chase him down?

After I received the box, I was having trouble hooking up any of my speakons to two of the receptacles. When I reached out to Jorg, he sent me a photo of a speakon cable sitting on a table, stating, "you need one of these." When I told him I had tried four separate cables and couldn't get all the inputs to catch, he said he would contact his engineer and get me another box. At no point did it occur to either Jorg or myself that I might not have the correct cables. You can throw stones at me for that, but, Jorg didn't think of it either. Is what it is. I don't typically utilize speakon cables, so, cast aspersions if you feel it necessary, but, as I stated, it didn't occur to Jorg either.

At this point in the story, Jorg really drops the ball. I would send a message about once a month or so, and Jorg would give me a short response about having another box made. I decided to make my experience public after I received his last reply; telling me that his engineer was in the hospital and "things happen." In all due respect to a potentially sick engineer (god bless the guy, sincerely), was the engineer in the hospital for the prior months I was sitting around waiting for Jorg to follow through? Come on, I'm thinking not. Particularly since Jorg never made any mention of someone being sick or in the hospital.

THIS is what I'm feeling a sense of frustration about. Now, if some of you guys still can't understand why I would frustrated at this point, I'm not sure what more I can say. This is simple customer service and simple follow-through. This is not a complex situation. A number of you are making the situation out to be complex, going on and on about how I have a functional box and I still haven't hooked it up, but you are totally missing the point of this post; TO THIS DATE, JORG COULD GIVE A RAT'S ASS IF A GUY WHO BOUGHT TWO NEW CABS FROM HIM HAS BEEN ABLE TO GET THEM UP AND RUNNING. FOLLOWING THE RECOMMENDATIONS JORG HIMSELF MADE AND PROMISED TO HAVE IN PLACE. If some of you can't see how that's a significant business problem, well, sigh... I hate to see how you run your businesses. I sure don't run my business that way. Not even close.

To those of you who a questioning my conversations with Jorg, as to whether I was annoying him, miscommunicating with him, etc, etc, all I can say is that my communications with Jorg were polite, brief, and few in number. They may have been redundant after a number of months, asking when I would have a functional box, but ALWAYS polite and brief. To place the blame of this situation on my communication or mannerism via email with Jorg would be a mistake. For sure. But, again, my perspective.

I could post all of my communication with Jorg on this thread, but, I don't think any of us would post private communications with anyone via email on a public site. Now, that being said, if any of you are of the concerned and friendly sort (not among those who would have my head for simply telling my story), I might consider passing on my email communications in a private message. Honestly, as I said, the emails are fairly brief and straightforward. Nothing horrible to read, coming from either side.

Very long response. Sorry about that. I'm simply attempting to quell some of the nonsense. Please remember, we are all just bass players, doing what we love. Like many of you, I'm lucky enough to get paid to play my guitar. There's no need to rip each other apart, over me sharing my experience. If you had a different one, that's great for you. More power to you!

 

[Munjibunga]

Yes I have... however, motivated reasoning is not going to help this argument (i.e. I'm not going to skew my position because I'm hypothetically losing money on allegedly "bad" customers). Generally, when I've worked in such a capacity I've tried to treat people how I'd like to be treated if I were the customer. As it appears, the customer in this case was pushed into buying a product he didn't really want and found too complex to use (and possibly with a manufacturing defect in the series box), when the whole situation would never have occurred at all if he had simply received what he initially asked for....

Then again, the OP accepted something other than what he asked for.

Also, some customers are so obnoxious/clueless/unreasonable/etc. that they don't deserve any service at all. I am not saying this is the case with the OP by any means. I'm just saying that the customer is not always right.

 

[PhatBasstard]

There are three sides to every story. We only know one.

- John

The real problem is too many here are creating their own stories because, despite being pointed to and hand fed the original postings from the OP (numerous times in several cases), they either can't read and/or comprehend, and keep trying to change the narrative and series of stated events.

Your hammer won't drill holes?!
Sure it will.
Try it on your head (No, not your amp).

Drivel!
NEXT!

Now, I don't know Jorg very well. But I remember, several years ago, when he came out with his original cabs. Touting the twin speaker, with one mounted at an angle next to the port of the other, as this revolutionary new design.
He became quite defensive and wishy-washy when I (and several others) pointed out that the old Tech Soundsystems (I had owned two of their cabs for years) had been producing this type of design for years. And it took a while for him to admit he'd seen the Techs previously.
A crime? At this point, obviously not. But I just thought the whole presentation made him look a little sketchy.
Even the most well intentioned businessmen may conduct themselves differently during tough times.
I don't think Schroeders are flying off the shelves like they did at first.

 

[12bass]

Then again, the OP accepted something other than what he asked for.

If we take the above at face value, the buyer wanted x and the seller suggested y, even though x was actually the more suitable product. Nonetheless, the buyer accepts the seller's recommendation and is unhappy with the product. Such a situation reflects poorly on the seller more so than the buyer (notice I am talking generally, in part because I think it helps to make it less personal, plus the same line of reasoning applies universally). The seller/manufacturer is supposed to be the expert on the product, not the prospective buyer. Why it is supposed to be the buyer's fault for trusting the seller's advice?

Also, some customers are so obnoxious/clueless/unreasonable/etc. that they don't deserve any service at all. I am not saying this is the case with the OP by any means. I'm just saying that the customer is not always right.

And some birds fly, while others don't... some wish they could and some won't... also not necessarily anything to do with this thread!

 

[jnewmark]

My goodness! I never expected to get such a debate going, from simply sharing my experience doing business with Schroeder. I'm particularly surprised at how deeply offended (for lack of a better word) some of you guys seem to be, at my assessment of the transaction. Almost a degree of anger, rolling around here. I'm also surprised at how much of what I have gone out of my way to clarify has gone unread. It's almost as if some guys lightly skim through posts, get angry, and type away.

I want to clarify, for yet the third time; I am not angry or "butt hurt" (lol) with Jorg. I'm not "venting" on Talkbass because I'm a pussy who is trying to bad-mouth a cabinet manufacturer because of my own inadequacies and ignorance. I am simply a bass player, who is sharing my personal experience with Schroeder cabs. Again, and, as I've stated a couple of times, I have no problem with folks who love Jorg and Schroeder cabs. God bless you! That's great! But, that doesn't mean that I can't share, what I felt to be, a less-than-optimal experience with Jorg. If you can't handle hearing a genuine and honest critique, then ignore this post. Simple as that. Schroeder Cabs will keep doing what they do, and so will we all. This is simply my experience. So, for those of us who are all worked up, just please calm down. Also, thank you, to those of you who have actually read what I have written, and tried to understand or asked for further clarification. There does seem to be a couple of you guys who almost seem to be WANTING to misunderstand... I'm not exactly sure what that's all about. Odd. Maybe you love Jorg and Schroeder cabs? Or, perhaps, you assume I'm misleading folks? Not sure?

Now, I'm not sure how to proceed, as I keep reading incorrect takes on my situation. I suppose I'll simply reiterate my main point, for lack of any other idea; my beef with Jorg was the fact that he recommended I purchase 4ohm cabs, with the addition of the "box" that would enable me to accomplish running the two cabs with a 4ohm head. The box (which we have been jokingly referring to as the "magic box"... lighten up, it's a joke) was promised to arrive with the first cab. The 15/8. That way, I could run the cab with any other 4ohm cab or with a future Schroeder 12/10. The box was not shipped with the 15/8, as promised. I had to chase Jorg down for it. Seemed to be some confusion on his side, at the post office? Or, some such thing? I can't specifically recall when I finally received the box? Maybe a month later? Or longer than that? I'll have to go back an look at the emails. At the time, I started to feel irritated, as I was told he'd throw the box in with the 15/8. I didn't understand why I had to chase him down?

After I received the box, I was having trouble hooking up any of my speakons to two of the receptacles. When I reached out to Jorg, he sent me a photo of a speakon cable sitting on a table, stating, "you need one of these." When I told him I had tried four separate cables and couldn't get all the inputs to catch, he said he would contact his engineer and get me another box. At no point did it occur to either Jorg or myself that I might not have the correct cables. You can throw stones at me for that, but, Jorg didn't think of it either. Is what it is. I don't typically utilize speakon cables, so, cast aspersions if you feel it necessary, but, as I stated, it didn't occur to Jorg either.

At this point in the story, Jorg really drops the ball. I would send a message about once a month or so, and Jorg would give me a short response about having another box made. I decided to make my experience public after I received his last reply; telling me that his engineer was in the hospital and "things happen." In all due respect to a potentially sick engineer (god bless the guy, sincerely), was the engineer in the hospital for the prior months I was sitting around waiting for Jorg to follow through? Come on, I'm thinking not. Particularly since Jorg never made any mention of someone being sick or in the hospital.

THIS is what I'm feeling a sense of frustration about. Now, if some of you guys still can't understand why I would frustrated at this point, I'm not sure what more I can say. This is simple customer service and simple follow-through. This is not a complex situation. A number of you are making the situation out to be complex, going on and on about how I have a functional box and I still haven't hooked it up, but you are totally missing the point of this post; TO THIS DATE, JORG COULD GIVE A RAT'S ASS IF A GUY WHO BOUGHT TWO NEW CABS FROM HIM HAS BEEN ABLE TO GET THEM UP AND RUNNING. FOLLOWING THE RECOMMENDATIONS JORG HIMSELF MADE AND PROMISED TO HAVE IN PLACE. If some of you can't see how that's a significant business problem, well, sigh... I hate to see how you run your businesses. I sure don't run my business that way. Not even close.

To those of you who a questioning my conversations with Jorg, as to whether I was annoying him, miscommunicating with him, etc, etc, all I can say is that my communications with Jorg were polite, brief, and few in number. They may have been redundant after a number of months, asking when I would have a functional box, but ALWAYS polite and brief. To place the blame of this situation on my communication or mannerism via email with Jorg would be a mistake. For sure. But, again, my perspective.

I could post all of my communication with Jorg on this thread, but, I don't think any of us would post private communications with anyone via email on a public site. Now, that being said, if any of you are of the concerned and friendly sort (not among those who would have my head for simply telling my story), I might consider passing on my email communications in a private message. Honestly, as I said, the emails are fairly brief and straightforward. Nothing horrible to read, coming from either side.

Very long response. Sorry about that. I'm simply attempting to quell some of the nonsense. Please remember, we are all just bass players, doing what we love. Like many of you, I'm lucky enough to get paid to play my guitar. There's no need to rip each other apart, over me sharing my experience. If you had a different one, that's great for you. More power to you!

Fair enough and if I offended you in any way, I apologize for it. Some times, things can get a little heated here, especially when someone posts a negative thread about a favorite brand of gear. What I don't appreciate is other posters putting words in my mouth, or making accusations, ( not you ), about the other party involved without any proof or verification. But, that is what the Ignore function is for and I will make use of it.
If you ever do decide to hook that box up let us know how or if it works to your satisfaction. Good luck !

 

[trickyric]

IF all that were accurate... the OP would still get a pair of cabs that he can't use together...

Exactly! he started by calling this company to get a 15x8 8ohm cabinet. He then spoke to a person he believed to be an expert and was sold on 4ohm with a free box.
It all begins and ends there.

 

[trickyric]

It's easy for tech-savvy people to say that the OP should have known better or that he should have procured the correct connectors or... etc... However, some people do not understand much about electronics and some may even be cautious about hooking up something they don't understand. Should they be blamed for that?

Assuming that the OP's story is accurate, he specified at the outset that he wanted 8 ohm cabinets for his 4 ohm minimum amplifier and was instead talking into buying 4 ohm cabinets with a "magic" series box to hook them up. First off, I'd say that the seller was off base by selling him the 4 ohm model; it would be troubling if it was because the seller had 4 ohm parts in stock and pushed the OP into buying something he not only didn't want, but was also sub-optimal for his rig, all because it served the seller's purposes better than the OP's. I see no reason at all why an 8 ohm 15/8 cabinet could not have been built as the necessary components are widely available.

The seller also should have explained how the series box functioned along with information regarding what sort of electrical connectors were required to hook it up. I'm going to guess that what the OP wanted was a simple "plug and play" rig, where he could just plug his new cabinets into his amp, without having to buy any special Neutrik connectors; this is not unreasonable in the slightest. Two 8 ohm cabinets would have accomplished this. Not only does a series box add unnecessary complexity (over the two 8 ohm cabinets the OP originally wanted), it results in a loss of power and a sub-optimal speaker wiring scheme which has potential performance issues.

Anyone capable of building/wiring a speaker cabinet should have more than sufficient understanding of electronics to explain what a series connection box is and how to use it. The suggestion that an engineer was required for any of this is laughable. It also appears that the construction of the series box supplied may have left it unable to function correctly due to some protruding screws. Not sure if this is correct, but if so, that it also highly problematic, because it entails supplying a sub-optimal solution to a problem that doesn't even work.

YES!!!! This!!!

 

[trickyric]

I have only one question, why in all these months didn’t op come on here for advice. We could have set him straight about the series box and cables.
It almost sounds trolly/ish to me. I would really love to hear from Jorg.

Don't put your intentions on another persons actions.
His line of thinking seems to have been to work it out with Jorg.
How you would have handled it is moot.
I personally would not have come here for advice on brand new equipment. After the lack of communication I would have shipped them back to the company and disputed charges with my credit card company.
We all have different thoughts on how to handle things.

 

[trickyric]

Then again, the OP accepted something other than what he asked for.

Also, some customers are so obnoxious/clueless/unreasonable/etc. that they don't deserve any service at all. I am not saying this is the case with the OP by any means. I'm just saying that the customer is not always right.

just my business sense here,
If you don't want to deal with a customer you offer a refund and take the product back no questions asked.
Once you take the payment you are in the consumer/retailer contract.
It's easy to take a stand when you have the money in your hand

 

[trickyric]

It was asked how I know that Jorg is aware of this thread.
My comment was an "assumption" based on the many posters to claim to personally know Jorg and conduct business with him from this thread.
I didn't know we were in a court of law and to provide exhibit A for all our thoughts and opinions.
Either way,
if you take the OP at his word, he has reached out to Jorg many times without response.
I am going to go out on a limb and say Jorg is very aware of the OP's problem and at some point I am ASSUMING someone has told him about this thread.
If that assumption is wrong, I apologize to Jorg in advance.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

The real problem is too many here are creating their own stories because, despite being pointed to and hand fed the original postings from the OP (numerous times in several cases), they either can't read and/or comprehend, and keep trying to change the narrative and series of stated events.

This is what I am finding weird about this thread...

 

[nutdog]

My goodness! I never expected to get such a debate going, from simply sharing my experience doing business with Schroeder. I'm particularly surprised at how deeply offended (for lack of a better word) some of you guys seem to be, at my assessment of the transaction. Almost a degree of anger, rolling around here. I'm also surprised at how much of what I have gone out of my way to clarify has gone unread. It's almost as if some guys lightly skim through posts, get angry, and type away.

Your naivety is cute. Endearing, actually.

 

[Red Planet]

Lets see if I got this right?

Customer bought and paid for a 4 ohm cab. Customer recieved a working 4 ohm cab. Customer later purchases another 4 ohm cab and receives a functioning 4 ohm cab. Customer recieves a functioning series box but does not know how to use it.

 

[trickyric]

Lets see if I got this right?

Customer bought and paid for a 4 ohm cab. Customer recieved a working 4 ohm cab. Customer later purchases another 4 ohm cab and receives a functioning 4 ohm cab. Customer recieves a functioning series box but does not know how to use it.

again with all respect,
Customer called Jorg wanting an 8 ohm cabinet and explained plans to add another cab at a later date. Jorg reccomended 4 ohm because he has a box that he is throwing in that will make it work great.
Customer trusts the expert cabinet maker and orders what is reccomended.
FWIW,
If you have to change the context of what the OP clearly posted in the FIRST paragraph of the FIRST post your not really making much of a point.
We get it, you don't believe the OP.

 

[Red Planet]

Also I am not deeply offended.

I question posters only motivation to post in TB about this subject and nothing else.

Others are taking the OPs post as the gospel, I am not. I question the motivations here as these details seem bizarre to me.