Never Ordering a Schroeder Cab Again

[nutdog]

Assuming the emails are complete and unedited it doesn't seem like good communication or timely service on the builder's part. You can knock the OP for not knowing everything but he's asking a trustworthy expert so what's wrong with that?

11/20/17 Jorg ~


I would definitely go with the 8/15

and I would recommend a 4 ohm cabinet especially if you don't push it to hard, even though the B&Cs can handle some serious juice if necessary


11/20/17 Scott ~


I was thinking 8 ohms, in case I, at some point, wanted to add a second 15/8 cab... But, if you feel that the 4ohm design is the way to go, I trust your judgement. Let's do it!


11/20/17 Jorg ~


I would recommend a 4 ohm cabinet; and if you decide to order a 2nd unit my engineer came up with a converter box

where you can connect two 4 ohm cabinets to a 4 ohm amp; that box has been tested live for months and it works flawless


11/20/17 Scott ~


Okay. I'll follow your recommendation.


11/20/17 Jorg ~


sounds good, talk soon

Knowing the user might add a second cab, that the amp is 4 ohm min and, as has been noted in this thread, has plenty of power at 8 ohms I see no reason to recommend a 4 ohm cab in the first place. If that is the recommendation, it should be clear what the final load of the combined cabs will be and that the amps full 1000 watts won't be available. Note the use of the word "converter", not serial. Why not be clear?

2/12/18 Scott~


I don't think I would ever utilize the 2x10, on it's own... Always with the 15. I would need some way to run both cabs, with the 15 being a 4 ohm cabinet. Amp maxes out at 4ohms. Could you give me a ballpark price?


2/12/18 Jorg ~


my engineer designed a converter box where you can run two 4 ohm cabinets with your amp;


it's been diligently road tested and works flawless; if you are interested I offer you the 1000 watts 1210 for $750.00 shipped and include the box free of charge

Again, "converter" not serial. No explanation of combined impedance and amp power reduction.

3/2/18, 12/10 delivered


3/11/18 Scott ~


Hi Jorg! So, I don't think I'm seeing the box, to run both cabs at the same time..?


3/13/18 Jorg ~


Hi Scott; I went to the Post office and they informed me that the box is on the way, even though it's been taking quite a bit longer than anticipated; if it doesn't arrive by tomorrow or Thursday I'll send you another one please let me know

Box doesn't arrive with cab making second cab temporarily useless.

3/25/18 Scott ~


Hi Jorg, so, just to clarify; this box will enable me to run two four ohm cabs, at a 4ohm total load? Rather than 2 ohms? Just making sure, before I blow poopie up lol


3/25/18 Jorg ~


Yes, you can connect two 4 ohm cabs with it

At some point here, the box finally arrives.

OP specifically asks if it will be a 4 ohm total load. Builder says yes but appears to be answering a different question, that of whether it is safe or not. Again, no clear explanation of what the box does and how it will affect combined impedance and amp power.

4/11/18 Scott ~


Hmmm. Seems that one of the connections on the box won't take a cable. The other side seems to work just fine. I have lots of speakon cords. That's what I'm saying, one of the plugs isn't taking the speakon cord. Two seem fine, but one is blocked. Internally?


4/11/18 Jorg ~


let me talk to my guy and see if he can send me quick another box


5/24/18 Scott


Hi Jorg! Hey, still waiting to figure out how I can get a working box? We determined that one jack will receive the cable, and the other will not.

Over a month between these.

5/24/18 Jorg


Hi Jack

sorry for the delay, my engineer was a bit overwhelmed

I should have some new ones next week

Thanks


5/31/18 Scott


Hi Jorg... any word on this box, as yet. I've been waiting for a working box, for a very long time. The cabinets are totally useless in tandem, without a working box. Perhaps the engineer wants to speak w/me directly, to make sure I'm utilizing the box I have correctly? Should simply accept a speakon cable?


5/31/18 Jorg


Hi Scott. I should receive some boxes today or tomorrow, and will send one out right away

Thanks

Still waiting a week later.

6/22/18 Scott ~

Hi Jorg. Seeing that I have been unable to get a functional box, I'm going to list these cabinets for sale. If you wouldn't mind, please send me a functional box for the buyer. I will pay for it, if necessary. Please.

6/22/18 Jorg

Scott

My engineer had surgery and is in the hospital. Therefore the delay. Things can happen. Thank you

Just leaves him hanging. Why not recommend another serial box from a different supplier at this point?

 

[bucephylus]

YES!!!
It is mind F-ing boggling how so many have missed this.

Or, in their posts. put 4 ohms where 8 ohms was clearly stated and vice versa.

Half the bandwidth of this thread is a waste from posters who can't read and/or comprehend the written word.
(Or didn't read the whole thread.....)

No, what is mind boggling is that some on here are either not reading, mis-reading, or choosing to discount Jorg’s explanation. Here it is, in case you didn’t see it.
Never Ordering a Schroeder Cab Again

The main issue, my $0.019, is that the two stories don’t line up. Which means one of the two parties is misrepresenting what happened. Guess each of us is free to decide whatever they choose.

If you like conspiracy theories, you may choose one side. Others of us familiar with builders who have been active on TB for a long time now, may choose the other.

Peace, let’s move on. Please.

 

[FunkHead]

I agree BadExample on almost all of this post, except the part in Jorg's post that clearly states that he tested the box and it worked. If the offending screw does indeed not allow the OP to use the box, how in H E Double Hockey Sticks did Jorg test it?
Fishheadjoe
PS I am not a Speakon expert!

From the Pic, It doesn't look like the screw would prevent a Speakon from attaching.
Don't forget: there are cheap Knockoffs of Speakon cables. Maybe these cheap knockoffs won't work with the box but the real deal will. I know I could get it sorted out in far less than 9 months.

 

[FunkHead]

Assuming the emails are complete and unedited it doesn't seem like good communication or timely service on the builder's part. You can knock the OP for not knowing everything but he's asking a trustworthy expert so what's wrong with that?

What??? The problem came in months after the original purchase. Jorg should have told the guy to pound salt at that point!

 

[Fishheadjoe]

What??? The problem came in months after the original purchase. Jorg should have told the guy to pound salt at that point!

The OP is out close to $2K and you are suggesting that the seller/manufacturer/expert should tell his customer to pound salt.
I've got some land in the middle of Lake Ontario I'd be willing to sell you!
Fishheadjoe

 

[Pbassmanca]

The OP is out close to $2K and you are suggesting that the seller/manufacturer/expert should tell his customer to pound salt.
I've got some land in the middle of Lake Ontario I'd be willing to sell you!
Fishheadjoe

You should have sold that land last spring when real estate prices went crazy....

 

[Fishheadjoe]

You should have sold that land last spring when real estate prices went crazy....

And the water level was up!!!!
Fishheadjoe

 

[nutdog]

What??? The problem came in months after the original purchase. Jorg should have told the guy to pound salt at that point!

I took time to break down my reasons based on the emails. If that is your takeaway I see no point in attempting to convince you otherwise.

 

[FunkHead]

The OP is out close to $2K and you are suggesting that the seller/manufacturer/expert should tell his customer to pound salt.
I've got some land in the middle of Lake Ontario I'd be willing to sell you!
Fishheadjoe

After months went by? Absolutely. It's simple math, 4 ohms + 4 ohms = 2 ohms. Or you can get a serial box which will allow you to run both Cabs. That will give you way more surface area and push more air. Any decent amp will be much louder than ever needed in such a situation. 1000 watts??? Come on man that's plenty to run those cabs at 8 ohms and crush even the loudest of drummers.
Hasn't this B/S nonsense gone on long enough???
I think so many people have come to Jorgs' defense for 2 reasons.

1: Many of us know how competitive the Custom Cabinet market is and the OP costing Schroeder even one sale can hurt the bottom line.

2: The facts are just to fuzzy to condemn Jorg. When months go by and then you try to add a second cab it's really no longer the responsibility of the builder.

Jorg went above and beyond to satisfy the OP considering the situation.

If the OP had purchased everything at once it would have been ridiculous to go 4 ohm. But that's just simply not how it all went down.

 

[BadExample]

I agree BadExample on almost all of this post, except the part in Jorg's post that clearly states that he tested the box and it worked. If the offending screw does indeed not allow the OP to use the box, how in H E Double Hockey Sticks did Jorg test it?
The other issue that hasn't been addressed is the length of time this has been going on. If memory serves me well, this Odyssey began in November!!!!!!
Guessing here that if the OP had a box that worked, he would be posting about how happy he was with his purchase! The mixed driver police would be all over this thread!
Fishheadjoe
PS I am not a Speakon expert!

I took Jorg's word on testing that he tested one of the first made. If he did mean he tested the box that shipped, it may have been with a different type of speakon that clears enough to lock in OR before final assembly. If QC is to be anything more than a sales slogan, a final test needs to be performed before shipping anything short of raw parts. This is where mass production outweighs boutique IMO. Even gizmos in smaller quantities get QC, plus trend analysis and failure analysis.

I agree on the time and outcome. OP should have picked up the phone as soon as he had trouble with the box. Jorg should have found a way to get a quality part out the door without waiting on his box builder to come back to work. You do not put orders for new gear in front of servicing past sales (warranty or paid for service). Sadly, it's too late to fix it now. Lost customer.

I would be curiouse to hear from OP if the wrong screw is the issue. Not by connecting to the amp, just by plugging the cable in and observing how far it goes and if it stops at the screw.

 

[Fishheadjoe]

After months went by? Absolutely. It's simple math, 4 ohms + 4 ohms = 2 ohms. Or you can get a serial box which will allow you to run both Cabs. That will give you way more surface area and push more air. Any decent amp will be much louder than ever needed in such a situation. 1000 watts??? Come on man that's plenty to run those cabs at 8 ohms and crush even the loudest of drummers.
Hasn't this B/S nonsense gone on long enough???
I think so many people have come to Jorgs' defense for 2 reasons.

1: Many of us know how competitive the Custom Cabinet market is and the OP costing Schroeder even one sale can hurt the bottom line.

2: The facts are just to fuzzy to condemn Jorg. When months go by and then you try to add a second cab it's really no longer the responsibility of the builder.

Jorg went above and beyond to satisfy the OP considering the situation.

If the OP had purchased everything at once it would have been ridiculous to go 4 ohm. But that's just simply not how it all went down.

I can only guess that you and I have different expectations of service when we spend our money. I do agree that this has been a mess since the get go and I also agree that even one bad experience can reflect badly on a small boutique type of company.
Had this happened with one of the large manufacturers, I would be less surprised. Given that this is a boutique organization, in my experience with boutiques, they will bend over backwards to please a customer, in a timely manner. That's what is standing out to me in the sorry story.
Fishheadjoe

 

[FunkHead]

I took time to break down my reasons based on the emails. If that is your takeaway I see no point in attempting to convince you otherwise.

Agreed! There's no point in trying to change my mind about this. Unless you can show me a video of the original sale taking place.
That said video would then have to show proof positive that Jorg went out of his way to mislead the buyer.
It's just way to far fetched to believe that Jorg would push 4 Ohm cabs on someone planning on 100% adding a 2nd cab.

Now if a guy wants just one cab, 4 Ohm is the way to go. Everyone is such a wimp about carrying gear these days! "Oooh, my 37 Lb head is too heavy for me" Seriously?? I carry my Hartke with one hand and my 2x10 in the other.

I have no doubt that OP was trying to have a single cab solution! At that point if the discussion turned toward adding a second cab on occasion for a larger/outdoor gig. Then the box becomes an option.

Or better yet, for very large gigs use a second amp which can be rented for $20.

 

[jnewmark]

Has anyone taken a look at the amp itself ? It is a specially designed, two channel amp, that is supposed to give the benefit of a " Bottom " channel of bass, with a " Top " channel of distorted electric guitar amp. Someone here said it was internally crossovered, but the crossover point is not listed. It has a LPF and a HPF, but, other than that, how does the signal get to the " distorted guitar " channel ? Both channels are supposed to be " mixed " to get the unique sound. If this the sound the OP is trying to achieve, and if I understand correctly how this amp works, then why add a 12/10 bass cab ? Why not a guitar cab to achieve the distorted sound ?

 

[BadExample]

After months went by? Absolutely. It's simple math, 4 ohms + 4 ohms = 2 ohms. Or you can get a serial box which will allow you to run both Cabs. That will give you way more surface area and push more air. Any decent amp will be much louder than ever needed in such a situation. 1000 watts??? Come on man that's plenty to run those cabs at 8 ohms and crush even the loudest of drummers.
Hasn't this B/S nonsense gone on long enough???

That amp is also rated at 600 minimum WRMS@8 Ohms, probably enough to Xmax the speakers to death. In OP's defense, he said it's not the load to the amp that's bothering him.

I see problems caused by both parties. They need profession mediation

The time-line is confusing. I don't see who waited, for how long, and where in the process.

I think both are responsible, or maybe irresponsible, depending on the point of view If I had thousands of $ riding on this, I would make me responsible. That could be thousands invested in something that is not yet working as planned, or thousands in lost sales. It seems to me that either could have picked up the ball and ran with it six months ago.

 

[FunkHead]

That amp is also rated at 600 minimum WRMS@8 Ohms, probably enough to Xmax the speakers to death. In OP's defense, he said it's not the load to the amp that's bothering him.

I see problems caused by both parties. They need profession mediation

The time-line is confusing. I don't see who waited, for how long, and where in the process.

I think both are responsible, or maybe irresponsible, depending on the point of view If I had thousands of $ riding on this, I would make me responsible. That could be thousands invested in something that is not yet working as planned, or thousands in lost sales. It seems to me that either could have picked up the ball and ran with it six months ago.

Agreed on all counts. It's just too fuzzy to drag a guy through the mud.
That's really all I want people to understand.

If everyone would read through the relevant posts and take a minute to really process all the info, would anyone be justified in "Never purchasing a Schroeder Cabinet ever again"???

I Think Not!

 

[wmhill]

ROFLMAO! I like how you spin. You should be in politics.
They don't censor ideas or opinions. Only improper behavior like insults or cursing.
They have the right to do as a private entity. But that is not what a forum is about.
But I do love how you did that.

 

[BadExample]

Has anyone taken a look at the amp itself ? It is a specially designed, two channel amp, that is supposed to give the benefit of a " Bottom " channel of bass, with a " Top " channel of distorted electric guitar amp. Someone here said it was internally crossovered, but the crossover point is not listed. It has a LPF and a HPF, but, other than that, how does the signal get to the " distorted guitar " channel ? Both channels are supposed to be " mixed " to get the unique sound. If this the sound the OP is trying to achieve, and if I understand correctly how this amp works, then why add a 12/10 bass cab ? Why not a guitar cab to achieve the distorted sound ?

I think it's a two channel pre-amp and the two get mixed down before a single channel output with 2 jacks/4 Ohm minimum. If it were really a full two channel power amp section, one four ohm on each side would be it, no box, no problems. Long ago amps with two channels had an 8 Ohm min. per channel, but I'm not aware of any moderns amps made this way. From what I see in the manual (didn't read the whole thing), you have full range out of either output jack which are parallel to each other.

HPF dUg traditionally used graphic EQ to eliminate all frequencies under 700 Hz. This High Pass Filter, calibrated at a standard -3dB drop, yields dUg’s preferred setting at around 1200 Hz.

LPF Low Pass Filter, corner frequency drop -3dB. For dUg, the preferred LPF setting is between 200-400 Hz. Note: When solely in the Bottom channel, LPF is bypassed.

Speakon® Speaker Outputs Wired in parallel. Total load: Min. 4Ω, 1000W RMS. These high quality locking plugs ensure maximum power transfer and provide secure connections. Reminder, speaker cabinets must be rated: 1000 watts RMS minimum, @ 4Ω 600 watts RMS minimum, @ 8Ω 300 watts RMS minimum, @ 16Ω

re: Invalid Link Removed

Interesting amp. To me not worth the price of admission. I'd go for a D800+ if I were to spend that much on one amp. 2 Ohm stable, plays clean or dirty, 5 year warranty, and very well received.

 

[FunkHead]

Under different circumstances I'd be interested in buying one or both of these Schroeder cabs.

 

[Stu_Bass]

I find it odd that every single person has ignored my post. It relates to a claim that Schroeder was releasing a box to run 2 4 ohm cabs at 4 ohms. The poster was asked a number of times whether it was a series box or whether it was a resistive load or whether it was a dual voice coil cabinet and replied no to all. It was to run a 4 ohm amp at 4 ohms with 2 x 4 ohm cabinets. I think this adds some credence to the OP's belief that he was getting just that and not a series box. None of this is in stone since I was not witness to the conversation but it is rather curious if you ask me

 

[BadExample]

It relates to a claim that Schroeder was releasing a box to run 2 4 ohm cabs at 4 ohms.

Where was that ever stated? All I saw promised was it would work with two 4 ohm cabs on a 4 ohm amp. OP also stated this was not his concern. Although in the quoted e-mail, Jorg's response was not very clear, some to the effect of yes, it will work with your 4 ohm amp.