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NEW Acoustic 360/361

#122
Buster Brown said:
I would love to see the stats on sales for the last year. George (apparently) has no advertising budget whatsoever and I STILL don't see him listed as an exhibitor at NAMM.

Frankly, (and IMO) I don't see how a company can stay afloat without a marketing plan, but what the hell do I know?? I seriously doubt that "word of mouth" will keep you going for very long.........
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Word of mouth will keep you alive if you have good distribution and appeal to a large range of people, in this case, its a limited market with a high end price tag.
 
#124
I am struck by the percentage of negative posting going on in this thread. That kind of posting in the Fodera threads, for example, would generate a bunch of moderator activity, and wouldn't be good.

So, this seems to be a real product. It is expensive. Can't tell how many people posting here ever worked with one of the originals or not. Some of the comments make me wonder. I gigged mine in Holiday Inns and biker bars for many years. They are way best with a Jazz Bass. if you have a P, you would probably prefer the SVT. The amp's main downside is you have to have a van or station wagon to get it to the gig and stairs are an issue. $5000? Compared to what? A Mesa M9 and a pair of Berg cabs? I mean its expensive but not by an order of magnitude or something. I say wish these guys well and get off the biotch band wagon. We need some of these ventures to succeed. And if that amp is even close to the original, it is fantastic with a Jazz Bass.

My 2c.
 
#125
Buster Brown said:
I would love to see the stats on sales for the last year. George (apparently) has no advertising budget whatsoever and I STILL don't see him listed as an exhibitor at NAMM.

Frankly, (and IMO) I don't see how a company can stay afloat without a marketing plan, but what the hell do I know?? I seriously doubt that "word of mouth" will keep you going for very long.........
Click to expand...

I don't get it either, but it's clear that the company marches to a different drummer (literally!). Maybe the sales channel is like Tupperware parties at country clubs for rich lawyers and doctors? :)
 
#126
lfh said:
I don't get it either, but it's clear that the company marches to a different drummer (literally!). Maybe the sales channel is like Tupperware parties at country clubs for rich lawyers and doctors? :)
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Don't get me wrong here....I have followed this saga from the very early days of the start up. I have spoken with George on numerous occasions about his "dream" and I am an avid supporter - not because I play his gear (I play Ampeg) but because he has always been "up against it" and yet, seems to have pulled it off.

I have read the screaming and gnashing of teeth RIGHT HERE on talk bass and have been called every name under the sun BECAUSE I dared even mention his start up. That goes back some 3 or 4 years. No biggie.

My main concern is that, after all is said and done, he still has to operate it like a mainstream company and do the things necessary to insure a level playing field. Advertising, network of dealers, shows like NAMM are all ESSENTIAL to getting a product to the masses. Believe it or not, every bass player in the world is NOT on talk bass.......:D
 
#128
bucephylus said:
I am struck by the percentage of negative posting going on in this thread. That kind of posting in the Fodera threads, for example, would generate a bunch of moderator activity, and wouldn't be good.

So, this seems to be a real product. It is expensive. Can't tell how many people posting here ever worked with one of the originals or not. Some of the comments make me wonder. I gigged mine in Holiday Inns and biker bars for many years. They are way best with a Jazz Bass. if you have a P, you would probably prefer the SVT. The amp's main downside is you have to have a van or station wagon to get it to the gig and stairs are an issue. $5000? Compared to what? A Mesa M9 and a pair of Berg cabs? I mean its expensive but not by an order of magnitude or something. I say wish these guys well and get off the biotch band wagon. We need some of these ventures to succeed. And if that amp is even close to the original, it is fantastic with a Jazz Bass.

My 2c.
Click to expand...

I'm not. With the way the Acoustic USA story unfolded, the strange and prolonged pre-product interaction with the maker on TB and the fairly bizarre seemingly scripted new user testimonials, etc.
 
#129
Buster Brown said:
My main concern is that, after all is said and done, he still has to operate it like a mainstream company and do the things necessary to insure a level playing field. Advertising, network of dealers, shows like NAMM are all ESSENTIAL to getting a product to the masses. Believe it or not, every bass player in the world is NOT on talk bass.......:D
Click to expand...

Right, that's exactly my thinking, too. Then again, the keyword might be "masses": The new 360/361 isn't exactly targeting the masses, and potentially one can reach prospects by other means than the above, at least during a phase. (Only time will tell if it works.)
 
#130
BurningSkies said:
I'm not. With the way the Acoustic USA story unfolded, the strange and prolonged pre-product interaction with the maker on TB and the fairly bizarre seemingly scripted new user testimonials, etc.
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+1

It was bound to stir up quite some irritation. OTOH, the amps have left the vaporware stage, and the maker isn't posting here anymore, so I hope the focus of the discussion will shift to the amps per se -- what's good about them, what's bad, and so forth. I guess a somewhat well defined street price would also help avoiding further infections in the threads.
 
#131
lfh said:
+1

It was bound to stir up quite some irritation. OTOH, the amps have left the vaporware stage, and the maker isn't posting here anymore, so I hope the focus of the discussion will shift to the amps per se -- what's good about them, what's bad, and so forth. I guess a somewhat well defined street price would also help avoiding further infections in the threads.
Click to expand...

In my mind, while conceiving a new amp is one thing, re-issuing or creating replicas is another thing…and what we have here is yet a third thing. It’s a completely different amp and cab, made to look identical to a classic design, that also has the same name and number as that classic design. Then it’s sold on the merits of that past design, and seems to be mostly confused by the bass playing public in a number of ways. Either as just a new copy of that past design or by the really uninitiated as belonging to a line of budget low cost import amps from a completely different manufacturer.

Anyone who says ‘but I played this amp through the 70’s’ or any number of other referencing for the ‘classic’ 360/361 is talking about a completely different amp design, completely different cabinets with different speakers. This only muddies the waters. The whole situation is a clusterfudge no mater what.
 
#132
BurningSkies said:
In my mind, while conceiving a new amp is one thing, re-issuing or creating replicas is another thing…and what we have here is yet a third thing. It’s a completely different amp and cab, made to look identical to a classic design, that also has the same name and number as that classic design. Then it’s sold on the merits of that past design, and seems to be mostly confused by the bass playing public in a number of ways. Either as just a new copy of that past design or by the really uninitiated as belonging to a line of budget low cost import amps from a completely different manufacturer.

Anyone who says ‘but I played this amp through the 70’s’ or any number of other referencing for the ‘classic’ 360/361 is talking about a completely different amp design, completely different cabinets with different speakers. This only muddies the waters. The whole situation is a clusterfudge no mater what.
Click to expand...
OK, I get your point. But, the thing is out now. So, why the continued rant postings vs someone actually posting experience with it? What I don't get is continued ripping on a product with zero experience one way or the other. If it performs, then great. If not, then that is also worth knowing. Data would be useful. Continued ripping without experience no longer makes any sense.
 
#133
bucephylus said:
OK, I get your point. But, the thing is out now. So, why the continued rant postings vs someone actually posting experience with it? What I don't get is continued ripping on a product with zero experience one way or the other. If it performs, then great. If not, then that is also worth knowing. Data would be useful. Continued ripping without experience no longer makes any sense.
Click to expand...

There's still no good data. And so far, the owner reports have been written in a way that would make many of us distrust them. It would be great to see an honest to goodness nuts-and-bolts tech review of this amp.
 
#136
BurningSkies said:
In my mind, while conceiving a new amp is one thing, re-issuing or creating replicas is another thing…and what we have here is yet a third thing. It’s a completely different amp and cab, made to look identical to a classic design, that also has the same name and number as that classic design. Then it’s sold on the merits of that past design, and seems to be mostly confused by the bass playing public in a number of ways. Either as just a new copy of that past design or by the really uninitiated as belonging to a line of budget low cost import amps from a completely different manufacturer.

Anyone who says ‘but I played this amp through the 70’s’ or any number of other referencing for the ‘classic’ 360/361 is talking about a completely different amp design, completely different cabinets with different speakers. This only muddies the waters. The whole situation is a clusterfudge no mater what.
Click to expand...

All valid points. It'd probably been better with an additional "Mk II" designation or similar, to clearly discriminate the new from the old. That said, I think the confusion mostly boils down firstly to the lack of "normal" marketing -- the manufacturer could have communicated what it is in a more stringent manner -- and secondly to the existence of two Acoustics, apparently without connections and without acknowledging each other on the respective home pages.

As for the "third thing", it's not that it's not been done (successfully) many times before, and this is not limited to amps -- e.g. modern takes on old cars (new retro Camaro vs old Camaro) and similar spring to mind. The upcoming new Fender Super Bassman is probably a good example of a similar strategy: Keep the old, iconic looks, an established name, keep some of the old design features, update some, and finally completely redesign some aspects. Sure, the old and new 360:s may appear more close visually, but take a closer look, and there's no confusion as to what the new one is -- and isn't.
 
#138
BurningSkies said:
I'm not. With the way the Acoustic USA story unfolded, the strange and prolonged pre-product interaction with the maker on TB and the fairly bizarre seemingly scripted new user testimonials, etc.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

My problem is that the way that George and the other "customer testimonials" present themselves. Everyone seems to hail it as the "second coming" of bass amplification, while at the same time transparently using nostalgic association to try to sell them.

The hyperbole, plus the price tag and marketing rhetoric combined with the confirmation bias associated with spending a lot of money on a premium product set off all kinds of "hype machine" alarm bells for me.

I'll freely admit I'm not in the target market (I live in a tiny apartment, take public transportation everywhere, don't have $5000 to spend on a bass rig, and never experienced the 360/61 when they were "big" so I have no nostalgia and remember the ones I've tried as loud, woofy, and inarticulate.) Still, though, it just strikes me as a lot of "big claims" with no backup.

I'd love to see one of these in Bass Gear Magazine. They at least do a reasonably good job on reviews.
 
#139
I'm re-posting because my post got thoroughly buried under the retail price discussion...regarding that by the way, I have a PDF of all the info & specs of these new amps. The prices are not what you would pay. Once you call George to be put on the list, he will work out a street price for you. I don't know how deep the discount is, but there is one. These are expensive because the components are made from scratch according to original specs. Just the voice coils for example, are made by a US company & trial & error was used to get them just right.

Now for my original questions regarding this gear for anyone who might be more knowledgeable. I've been reading a lot about the 361 cab, but if I got one of the powered cabs, it would be the 361M which is identical except with a 15 instead of the 18....also has the same folded horn has the 361. It's 25lbs lighter & 12" shorter. I'm also curious about the performance of their new 410 cab. It has a diagonal zig zag configuration & stands 36" tall. That one is unpowered & would require the Acoustic 400 watt power amp in conjunction with the 360 preamp. If I'm not going to get the granddaddy 18" model, would the 410+power amp be better than the powered 361M with 15?

In case you haven't heard of this USA cab yet...I'm NOT talking about the foreign-made GC 410 cab. I'm assuming the GC line is foreign as they couldn't be manufactured here at those low prices.
 
#140
mihayloff said:
I'm re-posting because my post got thoroughly buried under the retail price discussion...regarding that by the way, I have a PDF of all the info & specs of these new amps. The prices are not what you would pay. Once you call George to be put on the list, he will work out a street price for you. I don't know how deep the discount is, but there is one. These are expensive because the components are made from scratch according to original specs. Just the voice coils for example, are made by a US company & trial & error was used to get them just right.

Now for my original questions regarding this gear for anyone who might be more knowledgeable. I've been reading a lot about the 361 cab, but if I got one of the powered cabs, it would be the 361M which is identical except with a 15 instead of the 18....also has the same folded horn has the 361. It's 25lbs lighter & 12" shorter. I'm also curious about the performance of their new 410 cab. It has a diagonal zig zag configuration & stands 36" tall. That one is unpowered & would require the Acoustic 400 watt power amp in conjunction with the 360 preamp. If I'm not going to get the granddaddy 18" model, would the 410+power amp be better than the powered 361M with 15?

In case you haven't heard of this USA cab yet...I'm NOT talking about the foreign-made GC 410 cab. I'm assuming the GC line is foreign as they couldn't be manufactured here at those low prices.
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Excuse my ignorance, but if this is a new amp design, how do components to 'original spec' figure in. "original spec" to what?
 

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