New ampeg speculation - A true B15 Reissue?

[JimmyM]

david, not the first i've heard that but so many builders say it's impossible to source all-usa parts for their stuff. i don't know what's available in all the parts, but it seems like i can always find american parts when i need them. except tubes. have to go nos for the tubes.

 

[Spencer!]

david, not the first i've heard that but so many builders say it's impossible to source all-usa parts for their stuff. i don't know what's available in all the parts, but it seems like i can always find american parts when i need them. except tubes. have to go nos for the tubes.

In many cases it just doesn't make sense. Yes, there are a couple of oddball companies in the USA still making resistors, but you're paying 50 to 100 times the price for a part that is no higher in quality than the foreign equivalent, and the foreign part is more easily available from a wider network of distributors. Most major manufacturers have a policy of only using components that are available from multiple sources. If your one source of USA-made resistors gets backed up, that translates into a lot of lost revenue. As for capacitors, the most desirable ones come out of Japan. For a run of only 50 amps, it's feasible for Ampeg to source only USA components. But for any production model, it would make no sense.

 

[JimmyM]

thanks spencer.

 

[beans-on-toast]

No question, parts are less expensive when sourced overseas. Single sourcing is a risk. I love the Panasonic capacitors from Japan.

Some of the vintage style carbon composition resistors that you see in amps are made by Invalid Link Removed in the USA. They are a safe source as they are a fairly large company. There are a handful of people making repro coupling capacitors in the US. In time, I like to think that if there is a demand, component production will return to the US.

As Spencer! said, with a small run you can get away with sourcing all the parts in the US. As Jimmy said, tubes are an issue and NOS is the only solution.

I'm impressed by what the team at Loud have accomplished. I think that their approach to this project should be both appreciated and applauded.

 

[JimmyM]

No question, parts are less expensive when sourced overseas. Single sourcing is a risk. I love the Panasonic capacitors from Japan.

george is using sozo blues in this for those scoring at home. usa made caps. he said something about using paper in oil caps and thought they might be better, but the sozos were more authentic to the original design. hey, for all i know, fine with me

As Spencer! said, with a small run you can get away with sourcing all the parts in the US. As Jimmy said, tubes are an issue and NOS is the only solution.

which they're using for pre tubes. nobody uses nos tubes for new anymore, especially ampeg.

I'm impressed by what the team at Loud have accomplished. I think that their approach to this project should be both appreciated and applauded.

frankly, i'm shocked anyone has anything bad to say about this amp at all. how can you look at it and not think it's anything but the highest quality available? the head and cab are first rate build quality. the only unknown is the speaker, but if a delta 15a will sound great in a double baffle cab, i would expect this new speaker to sound at least better than the delta.

that tears it. i'm forbidding anyone to ever say anything bad about it. from this point on, i will give an infraction to anyone who says anything bad about it. you think just because i'm not a mod i can't infract anyone? watch me. i'll infract your ass.

 

[Spencer!]

frankly, i'm shocked anyone has anything bad to say about this amp at all. how can you look at it and not think it's anything but the highest quality available? the head and cab are first rate build quality. the only unknown is the speaker, but if a delta 15a will sound great in a double baffle cab, i would expect this new speaker to sound at least better than the delta.

that tears it. i'm forbidding anyone to ever say anything bad about it. from this point on, i will give an infraction to anyone who says anything bad about it. you think just because i'm not a mod i can't infract anyone? watch me. i'll infract your ass.

I know, right? This thing just oozes quality. The team behind it are awesome guys, and the amp is being built with with best parts by the best builders. It seems like the negative reactions have generally been towards (still speculative) sticker shock. What do you expect? If you want the best, you gotta pay for the best! Hell, Roger Sadowsky stopped building the SA200 because he was barely making money on them @ $2800.

 

[pgk]

I know, right? This thing just oozes quality.

it really does. kudos to the Loud team, even if it's only 50. that is a passion project if i ever saw one

 

[fivestringgecko]

It seems like the negative reactions have generally been towards (still speculative) sticker shock. What do you expect? If you want the best, you gotta pay for the best!

Agreed, which I've come to terms with. But that doesn't mean I'm not still anxious to hear the final street price...

What I find interesting now is that for the last few pages, the argument has been about where the parts are made. We need something new to argue about!

How 'bout it Ampeg... A new juicy little tidbit for us? Maybe a teaser about what those other covered amps in the picture with the B-15 are?

5sg.

 

[Rumblefisher]

Per Ampeg's previous announcement the amplifiers are being hand built in Michigan by George Metropoulos and his staff at Metropoulos Amplification.

Go Greek people! Bravo Giorgo!

 

[coreyfyfe]

I know, right? This thing just oozes quality. The team behind it are awesome guys, and the amp is being built with with best parts by the best builders. It seems like the negative reactions have generally been towards (still speculative) sticker shock. What do you expect? If you want the best, you gotta pay for the best! Hell, Roger Sadowsky stopped building the SA200 because he was barely making money on them @ $2800.

Not only that, but considering the inflation adjusted cost of an original B15 was in about that range anyways we shouldn't be surprised it's so expensive.

 

[aborgman]

george's comment notwithstanding, ampeg's official designation is "made in the usa." it legally qualifies as "made in the usa," not "assembled in the usa"

Maybe.

"It first requires that the product's final processing or assembly occur in the U.S. This is only a starting point, however. Having an American manufacturing plant is not the end of the story. For the FTC to be satisfied that a product with an unqualified “Made in U.S.A.” claim is "all or virtually all" of U.S. origin, often times at least 90%, or perhaps more, of the product’s cost of goods sold must be attributable to U.S. parts and processing."

 

[Batmensch]

And where is that quote from?

 

[JimmyM]

Maybe.

"It first requires that the product's final processing or assembly occur in the U.S. This is only a starting point, however. Having an American manufacturing plant is not the end of the story. For the FTC to be satisfied that a product with an unqualified “Made in U.S.A.” claim is "all or virtually all" of U.S. origin, often times at least 90%, or perhaps more, of the product’s cost of goods sold must be attributable to U.S. parts and processing."

maybe, he says.

ok, i'm infracting you. and i'm so not going to get caught in this vortex again. believe what you want to believe. maybe you can be the guy who brings down ampeg with your superior sleuthing skills. you're the ralph nader of amps.

 

[seamonkey]

Maybe.

"It first requires that the product's final processing or assembly occur in the U.S. This is only a starting point, however. Having an American manufacturing plant is not the end of the story. For the FTC to be satisfied that a product with an unqualified “Made in U.S.A.” claim is "all or virtually all" of U.S. origin, often times at least 90%, or perhaps more, of the product’s cost of goods sold must be attributable to U.S. parts and processing."

+1

Unfortunately the FTC does not have police or examiners. It relies on reports of infringements from citizens or competitors. This may no seem like that big of deal, but now in this economic climate it is.

Here's a good summary:
Invalid Link Removed

If Ampeg can legally label this Amp as Made in U.S.A, I say this great! And quite an achievement. I wish more companies would at least try. And I hope it can be done cost effectively.

 

[JimmyM]

like i said, ampeg's whole reputation as a builder is riding on this amp. after the jaime engen idiot college boy years, claiming an amp is made in the usa and filling it with foreign parts would be absolute business suicide on their part. jaime engen caused the ampeg faithful to lose a lot of faith, and there's still a fair amount of skepticism even though he was kicked out on his ass. and any engineering student could pull it open and find out where everything's made. they've got nothing to gain by lying.

and that, to me, renders this whole splitting hairs thing about the made in the usa label dopey. ok, maybe not dopey...people should keep an eye out for things like that. but in ampeg's position where they're trying to regain lost trust, screwing the buyers of this amp would ruin them.

 

[fivestringgecko]

after the jaime engen idiot college boy years ... jaime engen caused the ampeg faithful to lose a lot of faith, and there's still a fair amount of skepticism even though he was kicked out on his ass.

Not sure of the timing of the "Jaime Engen period," but I wonder if that's why Ampeg never made it past "on the radar" for me? I guess I was always in the skeptical category. It seems like the B-15 is an effort at regaining some of that reputation, hopefully Ampeg can keep it up.

5sg.

 

[aborgman]

And where is that quote from?

Basically a paraphrasing of the 1997 Enforcement Policy Statement On U.S. Origin Claims.

Invalid Link Removed

"The Commission has determined, as explained below, that unqualified U.S. origin claims should be substantiated by evidence that the product is all or virtually all made in the United States."

 

[aborgman]

maybe, he says.

ok, i'm infracting you. and i'm so not going to get caught in this vortex again. believe what you want to believe. maybe you can be the guy who brings down ampeg with your superior sleuthing skills. you're the ralph nader of amps.

It isn't about belief or disbelief, and it certainly isn't about bringing down Ampeg.

It's about expecting them to adhere to the law.

I mean, really - they're pretty much my favorite amp company... that doesn't mean they shouldn't adhere to all applicable laws though.

 

[BassmanPaul]

This is something that can be argued round in circles to end up nowhere. If the amp is built in the USA that's great - some skilled folk are getting work, for a while at least.

My thoughts are on how the amp actually sounds out on the gig. Building an amp in todays world that has an output of 25 and 30 watts seems to me to be very limiting. A pair of 6L6GCs can get to 30W easily with cathode/self bias. In fixed bias close to double that. My only answer is perhaps the output is understated as it was in the past.

 

[JimmyM]

paul, paul, paul...tsk tsk tsk...

b-15 fans are unconcerned with two things...power and weight. if you want power and light weight, buy something else.