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New Avatar Cabs are up on the site

#61
Jaco who? said:
88.5 SPL? Nope. I don't think so.
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It's actually good for +100dB average sensitivity when used as intended, in a 30 cubic foot horn loaded pro-touring PA subwoofer. But for electric bass you're correct, it's absolutely the wrong tool.
Check the listed dimensions given by many of the high-dollar cabinet manufacturers.
Using the same sized box but with different speaker combinations seems to be a common pratice
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Because they're not shabby at marketing concepts either. Using stacked cabs with different drivers is bad enough, it's even worse when the cab design is heavily compromised just so that they'll look all nice and pretty stacked up. But looks is what sells cabs, not technology. And if they can save a few bucks by having to build far fewer cab shells to boot, why not?
 
#62
shoot-r said:
Check the listed dimensions given by many of the high-dollar cabinet manufacturers.
Using the same sized box but with different speaker combinations seems to be a common pratice, not just Avatar.
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That's a fact!
billfitzmaurice said:
That vast majority of players choose their gear by these criteria, in rough order of importance:

1. Price
2. Watts
3. Looks
4. Brand

Successful marketers like Dave didn't get to be successful by not knowing what drives sales, and where sales volume is concerned it ain't sound, and it ain't technology. He's got the price, the watts, the looks, and a recognized brand. Technology, no, but that's not his niche, and no one should expect that he'd go away from what works with his customer base in favor of something his core customer neither understands nor cares about, especially as so doing would result in a higher price and a different look.
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I know, I know, I know!! Shame ain't it?
I just wish somebody would take the bull by the horns and produce a cost effective two way done the right way.
With the bulk discount a major manufacturer can get from Eminence, It could still be done at an attractive price point. The cab technology has been researched, and while not suggesting plagarizing fEarful or Barefaced designs, a dimensional tweak here or there could accomplish it.
Really, a manufacturer could use all stock Em components such as 3015LF, Alpha 6, and 500 Hz crossover.(or maybe even one of the less expensive woofers)

As far as breaking from tradition, I know it's asking a lot, but it has been done. Thirty five years ago, If you told me to use four tens for bass, I would have envisioned the early Bassman or Super Reverb, which would be ungiggable in any powerful setup. But, someone started building a deep, ported, 4x10 box (SWR?),which eventually became the standard for the last couple of decades.
 
#64
lbwdog said:
My two cents. If I were a successful cab maker who wanted to introduce a 15" based bass guitar cab to my line, I would definitely create a 15 with a 6" or 8" mid/high cone driver and extol the virtues of the design in my promotional literature. Those of us who are already fans of this design would certainly be on board, and the others could be schooled by advertising, as they probably depend on that for their knowledge anyway.

But that's just me as I am already a fan of the Carvin LS 1503, fEarful, and Barefaced designs. I just don't get the 15/10 idea! :hmm:
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If this had a CBMR instead of a deltalite 10" I might be a buyer..
 
#65
Techy **** aside, I would like to talk to someone who has actually HEARD one of these, and gigged one, or at least used one with a band.

The rest is pure conjecture at this point - period. :spit:

The 15/10 cab very well could sound great, even if it's not on the bandwagon with the fArTfull 15/6 blah-dee-blah .
 
#67
shoot-r said:
Check the listed dimensions given by many of the high-dollar cabinet manufacturers.
Using the same sized box but with different speaker combinations seems to be a common pratice, not just Avatar.
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Thus the qualifier "cheaper". Truth be told, however, I meant it in several different ways.

Avatar's box is a "one size fits most" with respect to his driver selection, too. At one point, he offered 3 different stock drivers from Eminence in the 410. The current interation is at least the 4th. Same situation on a slightly smaller scale with the 212. This box was never engineered to match with any driver. It was a generic (and I guess forgiving) size meant to house off the shelf speakers. To expect him to change this business model now seems a little out of touch with what has made him successful. It's worked very well for him, I don't fault any of it.

It was also a "one size fits most" with respect to the buying public. Dave has traditionally stuck with the most popular speaker configurations; the ones that most of the bass playing market will be looking at when shopping.

Mike
 
#70
Gearhead43 said:
Techy **** aside, I would like to talk to someone who has actually HEARD one of these, and gigged one, or at least used one with a band.

The rest is pure conjecture at this point - period. :spit:

The 15/10 cab very well could sound great, even if it's not on the bandwagon with the fArTfull 15/6 blah-dee-blah .
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+1

You're right. Screw physics and experience.
 
#72
Bmorefoozler said:
If this had a CBMR instead of a deltalite 10" I might be a buyer..
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You might, but again, you know why a six inch midrange will work better along with a fifteen than a ten inch woofer will. The vast uninformed majority don't know, and don't care. Otherwise most of the replies in this thread would not have been posted.
 
#73
Gearhead43 said:
Well, I wouldn't say that - but I personally prefer to use my ears to make choices about things involving music.
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I do too. I've used a lot of amps and cabs over the years, and while specs aren't everything, they can give you a good idea of the 'big picture' when it comes to how something's going to sound.

Since you don't seem to like fEarful users, I'll use that as part of my example. I started playing bass with an Ampeg 810. Yes it sounded good. I've also gone through 3x15, 4x10, 2x12, 3x12, 1x15, 1x15+2x12 rigs and finally my 15/6 (plenty of other contracted or shared backline rigs too). The 15/6 has sounded the best of all of any of these set ups. I've had more compliments on my tone in a shorter time with it on stage and carrying the room than any other rig...its also the one that 'follows the rules' in terms of good design more than any of the others.

Having guys who design cabs professionally and others who are knowledgeable in the science as well as construction of cabs reinforce what I've heard with my own ears can only make me more of a 'believer'.

In the end, I don't really care what any other player uses...but if we're going to 'Talk Bass' we should (and are) doing so honestly, by discussing the merits of design features of this cab.
 
#74
KJung said:
The description of this cab seems to indicate that it is kind of a copy of the old SWR Triad cab, which, if I remember correctly had the 10 running full range, and the 15's top end chopped off a bit by a crossover (the blurb on the site talks about the tweeter and the 15 being impacted by a crossover, which suggests to me that Triad type thing). It does seem like a strange design, but I remember that Triad sounding pretty good (actually very good), both on stage and out front.

I guess sometimes things can just work that don't seem to make sense on paper. Who knows though!
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This is backwards. The 15 ran full range and the 10 had a (maybe 12db) 6db/oct 100hz high pass or thereabouts.

The 15s were constantly blowing because they sucked, and the 10s blew pretty easily too if people cranked the bass. The one I owned had a car audio woofer in the 10 before I replaced it :P

For the record the triad was potentially a really decent design, but the Avatar cab does not have a crossover from the 15 to the 10 and uses a substandard very heavy 15, and uses a 10 that is not optimized for midrange.
 
#75
rpsands said:
This is backwards. The 15 ran full range and the 10 had a (maybe 12db) 6db/oct 100hz high pass or thereabouts.

The 15s were constantly blowing because they sucked, and the 10s blew pretty easily too if people cranked the bass. The one I owned had a car audio woofer in the 10 before I replaced it :P

For the record the triad was potentially a really decent design, but the Avatar cab does not have a crossover from the 15 to the 10 and uses a substandard very heavy 15, and uses a 10 that is not optimized for midrange.
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Ah, I didn't remember the exact deal with the Triad, other than it sounded pretty nice and that one of the drivers ran full range and the other was impacted by the crossover. I don't remember issues with blow ups back in the day, but it was a long time ago.
 
#78
If anyone wants a powerful Hi-Fi rig, they need look no further than Pro Audio gear.

For example-

-Get an LS1503 and an LS1801N
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-Put the output of your choice of preamp into a crossover, such as the XC3000
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-High end goes to channel 1, low end goes to channel 2 in a DCM3000L ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]), then out to the cabs.

Any rig like that but "optimized for bass" *cough Accugroove cough* would just be a ripoff.

The thing is, If you're not into the Hi-Fi sound, you don't want a speaker that will reproduce exactly what you put in, hence all these "poorly designed" cabs.
 

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