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New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects

#2,421
Another thing people it's good to be aware of, is that the power ratings on modern active speakers are a bit misleading.

The QSC K12, for instance, is rated at 1,000 watts, which is technically true.

But it's got two matched 500 watt class D power stages- one for the woofer, and one for the horn.

There's no way that even a high-pitched instrument like a violin is ever going to push even 250 watts through that horn under normal operating conditions.

If you're sizing a modular PA with this type of cab, it will sound much smoother and nicer than conventional passive speakers.

But when it comes to maximum dB levels, it's better to think of them as having roughly half to two-thirds of the rated power.
 
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#2,422
Headlined a local festival gig last night, and I've gotta say how nice it was to show up with my bass and my mini Zoom board, and know that I could dial my tone in quickly. Backline was a fridge with a matching head. Sounded thunderous! A few quick adjustments on the head and I had my tone dialed. Now I've just got to figure out how to make my little Ampeg sound like it's BIG BROTHER!
 
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#2,424
BAG said:
I haven't been able to find the info on other threads so i thought I'd ask here. For anyone that may have used both the B3 and the older B1on, is the B3 drastically better than the B1on (i know everyone says the B3n is so much better than the B3 but battery power is important for what i need) or just slightly so?
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Actually B3 is oldest from all that Zooms, B1on came year latter as a cheaper version with same soft but in plastic case and without all ports. It's basically same sound. B3n is new software and new sound, it sounds better than b3 but not day&night better.
 
#2,425
TheIndieKid said:
Can anyone give me an overview on how the amp/cab sims, compressors and drives sound compared to the B3 and compared to the real deal?

I think the quality of these things would be the deal breaker for me. I only tend to use these effects.
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I used b3 for years and now i'm using b3n few months. I think Zoom changed converters or something like that, whole b3n sounds slightly better. To me b3n is in terms of sound fidelity same as e.g. Kemper.
 
#2,427
BAG said:
That'll do the trick.


Also, for home practice, and even for monitoring for small to medium gigs a Yamaha DBR10 would do a great job. Their bass response is amazing for the size and cost of them.
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For home practice I think at least 12" is minimum. I set up a practice space in my home using a pair of FBT X-lite 12 to output sound from Yamaha Dtx drum, pair of mics, B3N / VT bass and Flyrig for the guitard via a Yamaha mixer. The sounds is clear and loud enough.
 
#2,428
steve_rolfeca said:
Agreed, but not real comfortable about the "small to medium gig" part.

Coffee house or bookstore acoustic gigs, yes. With a Cajon, probably.

Step it up to even a gentle drummer with an acoustic kit and an electric guitarist with a small tube amp, and the DBR10 will start to break up on the low end. Especially if you play a 5-string.

That's the dividing line where you either need to supplement an active 10" PA speaker with the matching sub, or step up to a 12.
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I haven't used the DBR10 as a dedicated monitor but i do regularly use my little Schertler B10 bass amp (10" combo rated at 300w) as my monitor and di-out. Have used it with a drummer and guitarist in a decent sized room (400 people) and it was more than enough, but said drummer and guitarist are both an extremely rare breed that know how to keep the stage sound reasonable.

I can fully understand a DBR10 falling apart in the bottom end when pushed hard though.
 
#2,429
Maiv said:
I'm intersted in that Quilter you have drool, would it be good replacement for my crown xls1500 or is it to little wattage? I have Fearful 12/6, it's 8- ohm box. Price is :whistle: but it's lot smaller than crown:help:
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The game-changer with the Quilter is not the number of watts, but in its delivery of them. The Quilter replaced a Crown XLS 2002 in my rig and its 450-Watts @ 8-ohms rating is a perfect match for your cabinet's thermal limit.

Cheers!
 
#2,430
CharlieC said:
The game-changer with the Quilter is not the number of watts, but in its delivery of them. The Quilter replaced a Crown XLS 2002 in my rig and its 450-Watts @ 8-ohms rating is a perfect match for your cabinet's thermal limit.

Cheers!
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Thanks for quick reply. Does it sound better or is it only dimensions? Have you used Crown in bridged mode? I'm using bridged mode (1000w??) and it is not to much for my Fearful power hog :confused:
Sorry for offtopic but this info could be good for everyone using b3n as preamp.
 
#2,431
Maiv said:
Thanks for quick reply. Does it sound better or is it only dimensions? Have you used Crown in bridged mode? I'm using bridged mode (1000w??) and it is not to much for my Fearful power hog :confused:
Sorry for offtopic but this info could be good for everyone using b3n as preamp.
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The Quilter out-performed my bridged-mono XLS 2002 and I am done with rack mounted power amps for good. Again, it is the Quilter's delivery of the watts that makes this possible (with its proprietary dual-stage limiter in the preamp.)
 
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#2,432
CharlieC said:
The Quilter out-performed my bridged-mono XLS 2002 and I am done with rack mounted power amps for good. Again, it is the Quilter's delivery of the watts that makes this possible (with its proprietary dual-stage limiter in the preamp.)
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Great, so plenty of power. Is it enough neutral (frequency wise) for use with bass sims? Sorry for lot of questions, i will have to buy it without trying and in Europe is 700€ :rolleyes:
 
#2,433
BAG said:
I haven't used the DBR10 as a dedicated monitor but i do regularly use my little Schertler B10 bass amp (10" combo rated at 300w) as my monitor and di-out. Have used it with a drummer and guitarist in a decent sized room (400 people) and it was more than enough, but said drummer and guitarist are both an extremely rare breed that know how to keep the stage sound reasonable.
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BAG's point about his Schertler is valid, and llustrates why there is no single, simple answer for the question "how much power do I need?"

The idea of filling a 400-seat hall with a 1x10 combo would be laughable for most pop and rock musicians. When they're trying to keep up with a self-taught rock drummer and even one guitarist, bumping that little 1x10 combo up to a 2x10 wouldn't cut it in a rehearsal space, never mind a 400-seat live venue.

The fact that BAG can get by that amo, tells us more about the type of gigs he's playing than anything else:
  • He refers to the amp as his monitor. So he's playing in venues where the PA is up to doing the heavy lifting, and his amp is just there to provide a personal reference.
  • His guitarist and drummer not only know how to play quietly, but they choose to do so on the job. So they're not amateurs, and they're not bangin'' out classic rock covers at the local dive bar...
  • Schertler is popular in the upright bass community. Expensive, but the frequency response is tightly controlled, and they play a lot louder than you would expect.
A few rules of thumb, taking context into account:
  1. if you're playing along with recorded tracks while the wife and kids are asleep upstairs, even a 10" active PA speaker is overkill. An 8" Mackie or JBL nearfield recording monitor should be plenty. Even a Bluetooth speaker might be adequate, as long as you're not picky about tone.
  2. If you're in a "Dad band" that practices in each other's houses and cares enough to keep their levels low, you might get by with an active 10 with e-drums, or a 12 with acoustic drums.
  3. If you're in an amateur band that uses rented rehearsal facilities in an industrial neighbourhood, you might have to add a sub to that active 12.
  4. If you want to gig out with a rock band where PA systems and the availability of a DI feed for the bassist are often unknowns, you might not even be considering FRFR active PA speakers for your backline. And if you do, you're going to need a modular rig, probably an active sub plus a couple of top bins. Depending on the situation, they might be 15's rather than 12's...
 
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#2,436
Not to be a party pooper, but behold......

What the Zoom B3n/G3n should have been!

The Mooer GE 200 drool

upload_2017-10-8_14-54-1.jpeg


No Midi, or FX loop like the big boys!

Word is that it has full editing software and also loads 3rd party impulse responses!

THIS is how you design a budget, multi fx pedal in the 21st century (Zoom take notes).

Retail will be (£249 - £299), but don't quote me on that... ;)
 
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#2,437
I have a question I was hoping someone may have some input on. I am utilizing a bypass looper to get to unity gain which is easy enough, but how exactly you guys balance master, patch and effects volumes. Reason I am curious is becasue it seems the master volume has an effect on the amount of clean signal that will be injected into effects that have a blend/mix control, mostly the overdrives. What I am running into is when I run the master volume much past 40 or so it seems to diminish the effectiveness of the drives, However when running the master down around 30 or 25, the drives seem to get more lively since I have to boos their patch and pedal volumes to get to unity gain.

I more or less think I have a handle on it, I am just curious what others have experienced, given this unit had 3 volume parameters.
 
#2,438
Frellin Smesh said:
...What the Zoom B3n/G3n should have been!

The Mooer GE 200 drool

...Word is that it has full editing software and also loads 3rd party impulse responses!

THIS is how you design a budget, multi fx pedal in the 21st century (Zoom take notes).

Retail will be (£249 - £299), but don't quote me on that... ;)
Click to expand...
A little premature, I think. That totally depends on how it sounds, the street price, and how well the software, etc., perform.

But I will concede that it definitely looks more in line with what you would expect as a budget alternative to units with more advanced user interfaces like the Helix, Headrush, etc.

Pre-packaged, inflexible effects lists like you see on the Boss, Digitech and Zoom floor modellers are not where the industry is going in the long term.
 
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#2,439
Frellin Smesh said:
Not to be a party pooper, but behold......

What the Zoom B3n/G3n should have been!

The Mooer GE 200 drool

View attachment 2777043

No Midi, or FX loop like the big boys!

Word is that it has full editing software and also loads 3rd party impulse responses!

THIS is how you design a budget, multi fx pedal in the 21st century (Zoom take notes).

Retail will be (£249 - £299), but don't quote me on that... ;)
Click to expand...

Reserving judgment until there's more information. In the end, it all depends on what you're after, and how you like to use your pedal(s) in application. I know from experience that having more whiz-bang bells-and-whistles does not necessarily make for quick and painless sound creation or efficient use of one's time PLAYING, rather than tweaking. Nor does it mean that you'll necessarily love the way it operates in a live situation. I've assumed that the obvious simplicity and limitations of the new "n" series was totally intentional on ZOOM's part, in order to appeal to those who do want effects & modeling but don't want a less-than-intuitive means of operation (vs. traditional WYSIWYG dedicated stomps and amps).

The B3n/G3n do afford the user a way to reasonably navigate beyond just the three visible "slots". Not perfect, but it does work. I'm curious to see how MOOER has made this 3 button pedal a better choice for live players who don't like to do awkward tap-dancing and want to execute quick on-the-fly changes.

I've never been one for shying away from a guitar-based multi-fx/modeler because it's not purely designed for bass. I really like my G5n, and used an AxeFx for years. That said, there are some things about the bass-specific items offered in the B3n that are really spot-on for bassists, and I'd not want to give them up. This is why I'm a bit more curious about the MOOER RADAR cab sim ONLY pedal at the moment.
 

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