read post 96 in the thread by jack roan himself. its passive fender tone stack.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Noble Amps Preamp
- Thread starter IanMartinAllison
- Start date
read post 96 in the thread by jack roan himself. its passive fender tone stack.
Doner Designs
Steve Doner
- Jun 2, 2012
- 5,784
- 6,819
- Disclosures
- Doner Designs is an alias for Steve Doner
Thanks. Interesting. I stand corrected. Makes more sense to me that passive controls would be cut-only. Not sure I understand how you can do boost passively. Mentally I was trying to compare to passive tone controls on a bass which are flat when turned all the way up. Usually that's treble only, but G&L also has passive bass control on the L2000 and I'm pretty sure all the way clockwise is "flat" but they may voice the pickups so that it doesn't seem that way. One more thing to study.
Jack's post quoted above.
It shouldn't be surprising as almost all tube amps have passive tone stacks, almost always based on either the Fender or Baxandall/James circuits. Notable exceptions would be things like the Ampeg SVT's mid control, which is active (in a feedback loop around a gain stage), but the Low and High in that amp are passive. This also isn't a bad thing.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,042
- 45,890
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Boost is done by makeup gain either before or after the tone stack, or both. The stack itself is passive but the tone control circuit as a whole is not.
Well it depends how you look at it I suppose, because you're right: you can only cut with a passive EQ. However, the "flattest" setting might be (and often is) with both controls at maximum cut, so relative to that it is effectively boost only. Does this make sense?
And as @Passinwind said, there's extra gain there to make up for the inherent gain loss in the passive filter circuit.
Doner Designs
Steve Doner
- Jun 2, 2012
- 5,784
- 6,819
- Disclosures
- Doner Designs is an alias for Steve Doner
That I understand. But how do you boost bass (or treble) frequencies passively? Are you really cutting other frequencies and leaving the bass/treble? I get how a passive tone control works on a bass - capacitor bleeds frequencies above a certain point to ground and the pot determines how much is fed to the cap. The cap defines the cutoff frequency.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,042
- 45,890
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Doner Designs
Steve Doner
- Jun 2, 2012
- 5,784
- 6,819
- Disclosures
- Doner Designs is an alias for Steve Doner
Yes but doesn't that imply that the amp (or bass) is voiced with a deep mid-scoop and that you essentially undo that when the bass and treble are all the way down.
Thanks guys for the electronics lesson.
Yes but doesn't that imply that the amp (or bass) is voiced with a deep mid-scoop and that you essentially undo that when the bass and treble are all the way down.
Thanks guys for the electronics lesson.
That is exactly how the Fender tone stack works. With the knobs fully clockwise the circuit is a ~-20dB cut in the midrange. Turning them counter clockwise reduces the gain of the bass and treble bands to eventually meet that of the midrange, so when the frequency response curve is flattest there's something like 24dB loss between the input and output of the EQ filter circuit, which has to be made up somewhere. So if you take "flat" as your reference point then the EQ is boost-only. Whether you refer to it as boost-only or cut-only is really a matter of semantics.
Technically flat would be 2-10-2(if there was a midrange control). Personally I love the design. When you get used to it, its very versatile for tone shaping. Still saving my Canadian dollars for one of these 
Got a question for all you Noble users. Do any of you use it in a power/pre setup?
If so, which power amp?
And also, in running this way, do you experience any hiss in your cab/cabs.
I debating going this route to run it through my new Fearless f210, and just need info and advice.
Thanks in advance.
~ Robert
If so, which power amp?
And also, in running this way, do you experience any hiss in your cab/cabs.
I debating going this route to run it through my new Fearless f210, and just need info and advice.
Thanks in advance.
~ Robert
I sometimes run mine with a Crown XLS2500. It is very quiet, with only a little bit of noise at the most extreme levels. I'm using either a Berg AE410 or a Audiokinesis TC112.
I got mine last week and played in 3 church services (medium sized room, seats 500 to 600, monitoring is via IEMs). I played Lull PJ4 with Chromes, both pickups on full and the tone knob dialed back a bit. On the Noble, I set the bass and treble dials at 10:00 and engaged the low cut switch (since our room tends to be dark). I'm no genius when it comes to sound engineering, so I rely a lot on feedback from our sound engineers. They loved the sound and asked me never to change it. It's not easy to please them as much as this, so this means a lot to me. I was also experimenting with new IEMs (Sensaphonics AARO system), and the bass sounded great in my ears... inspiring in fact. I know that this is not the only tube DI out there and I've previously tried the REDDI and Monique. Both are great but for some reason they did not get the love from our sound guys. One thing that I really like about my new setup is that all I have to bring is the bass, tuner, Noble DI and IEMs..... and a few cables. Much simpler compared to what I was doing. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the Noble is totally worth the $$$.
In my practice room, I've just been running the Noble via the 1/4" out the effects return of my Acoustic Image Clarus, and it sounds really great with any of my speakers. If I ever need an on-stage power amp (I rarely do), that's what I'll be using.
Hope that helps anyone who is on the fence
In my practice room, I've just been running the Noble via the 1/4" out the effects return of my Acoustic Image Clarus, and it sounds really great with any of my speakers. If I ever need an on-stage power amp (I rarely do), that's what I'll be using.
Hope that helps anyone who is on the fence
Doner Designs
Steve Doner
- Jun 2, 2012
- 5,784
- 6,819
- Disclosures
- Doner Designs is an alias for Steve Doner
A number of guys are using the Demeter Minnie 800D or the Jule M700. Both setups seem to work really well.
You can page back through this thread and there are a couple of other threads that compare those two power amps. Probably any power amp will do, but if you want to pair the Noble with something that's equally boutique, hand made, etc, those seem to be the leading choices. I'm currently considering both of those. People seem to say the Jule is the quieter of the two, but the Demeter has to be pretty darn good considering that it was often paired with the Jule Monique preamp before Jule started making power amps.
Last edited:
I got mine last week and played in 3 church services (medium sized room, seats 500 to 600, monitoring is via IEMs). I played Lull PJ4 with Chromes, both pickups on full and the tone knob dialed back a bit. On the Noble, I set the bass and treble dials at 10:00 and engaged the low cut switch (since our room tends to be dark). I'm no genius when it comes to sound engineering, so I rely a lot on feedback from our sound engineers. They loved the sound and asked me never to change it. It's not easy to please them as much as this, so this means a lot to me. I was also experimenting with new IEMs (Sensaphonics AARO system), and the bass sounded great in my ears... inspiring in fact. I know that this is not the only tube DI out there and I've previously tried the REDDI and Monique. Both are great but for some reason they did not get the love from our sound guys. One thing that I really like about my new setup is that all I have to bring is the bass, tuner, Noble DI and IEMs..... and a few cables. Much simpler compared to what I was doing. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, the Noble is totally worth the $$$.
In my practice room, I've just been running the Noble via the 1/4" out the effects return of my Acoustic Image Clarus, and it sounds really great with any of my speakers. If I ever need an on-stage power amp (I rarely do), that's what I'll be using.
Hope that helps anyone who is on the fence
What about the reddi was it that your soundman didnt like?
I'm glad I went back to reread some pages... I'm definitely getting a Noble, but didn't want to run it through my GK MB800... I love the power of the head, but there's an insane amount of hiss that drives me crazy.
Seems the Demeter may be a great match for the Noble
I'm running my Noble through a Genzler Magellan 800, and it pairs well, and quietly, into the instrument in - or the efx return.
That is exactly how the Fender tone stack works. With the knobs fully clockwise the circuit is a ~-20dB cut in the midrange. Turning them counter clockwise reduces the gain of the bass and treble bands to eventually meet that of the midrange, so when the frequency response curve is flattest there's something like 24dB loss between the input and output of the EQ filter circuit, which has to be made up somewhere. So if you take "flat" as your reference point then the EQ is boost-only. Whether you refer to it as boost-only or cut-only is really a matter of semantics.
Yep this is exactly what I thought. not really a big deal as you can achieve a modern tone by boosting bass and treble or (I am assuming) have a punchier tone with the knobs at zero. I read that may be the case at least.
I'd love to see some spectrum analysis of what happens when you engage the low cut and then boost lows and highs. My experience tells me that should boost low mids and the scoop would happen higher up - at around 700ish hz. But I am not sure of the frequency that the bass and treble operate at. Is it essentially 80hz and 6k like I believe the Sadowksy is?
I heard that thing briefly last week and it sounded big, fat and WARM. It reminded me a lot of my Alembic F-1x preamp. Not a lot of tweaking built into the unit, but who needs to when it sounds that good just plugging into it? Paired with a parametric EQ for fine tuning a rig to a stage or venue and I think it would be a worthy match to just about any rack setup I've ever heard.
Doner Designs
Steve Doner
- Jun 2, 2012
- 5,784
- 6,819
- Disclosures
- Doner Designs is an alias for Steve Doner
Shelving kicks in at 80hz and 3.5khz and you are correct about the 700hz according to Jack Roan.
I would love to see the curves as well. Tried to do it myself with freeware but couldn't figure it out.
