Nobody cares about your tone....

[Teijo K.]

Non musicians might not have the vocabulary to talk about tone, but it does not mean they cant hear it. Sometimes people say things about songs, when they think sound. I had people commenting on some demos some years back, and the same song with bad sounds was a "bad song" and with good sounds it was a "good song". They might not understand that it was the bass player that played something wrong, they might just say it was a bad band. All the little details just add up on the band being good or bad. If you dont try your best at all levels, why bother to play at all then? poopy bass sound is not something non musicians might notice, but they notice that something is not right. And thay might not even say it, to you straight. They just dont come to the next show. I did not like that band, and dont know why might come from bad sounds.

 

[BurningSkies]

The real point to be made is that we're hardly ever in control of the tone the audiences hear. Either a zealous FOH guy or some audio engineer is going to do what they think needs done with it most of the time. So it may be better not to obsess to the point where we can't operate without the tone being just-so. I probably do anyway.

Well, in the decades of playing more and more there is less and less PA when you show up for a bar gig. In the era of 1990-2000, I could count on always having a PA when I showed up. Now, more than 50% of our gigs we have to provide our own. So, I'm the soundguy and it turns out I care about the bass tone out front. Often, we don't bring a big enough system to run bass, etc. through the front end, in that case, my rig is providing my 'tone' for the room.

So, in conclusion...at least 50% of my gigs or more I have total FOH control of my tone.

 

[MegaSwing]

Sometimes, being inside the sound makes it hard to know exactly what sounds perfect outside of the sound.

 

[JimmyM]

I can buy your argument that you should settle for an SVT3 instead of a DB751 if you're going to be replacing them a lot, but that's not at all the same thing as saying that "tone doesn't matter to a working professional."

I don't like this idea that a 3 Pro is settling from a DB751

 

[Mitchthebassplayer]

Norm Stockton once told the audience at a workshop that you will be hired, on a recording gig, because of your tone.

I couldn't disagree more with this and I feel like this is a really important topic. Of course good tone on recordings is essential. But you're not getting that gig for YOUR sound unless you're already super well known for it like Wooten or Pino, or you do something so out there and novelty-like that only you can do it (like Jaco, back when there was just one guy like Jaco, or Charlie Hunter or something). It's not the 80s anymore and technology has been very good to mediocre musicians and engineers. Every engineer knows that every session in the world (broad generalization) can be accomplished with a Fender bass and Ampeg flip-top. Maybe not even that. Just an Avalon U5. Or hell, just straight into the board. Talk about awful tone! I've done hundreds of sessions just going direct through some preamp that the engineer likes with one of my Foderas or old Fenders with flats. Usually doesn't sound anywhere close to what I go for live. Sometimes, the best bass tone for the mix is some poopy old $75 bass from Japan or a horrible awful crunchy thin tone that if you had to use live on stage you'd die. You'd be surprised at what a good engineer can get away with, making poopie bass sound good. Or, good for the track. And unless it's some major band project where every little nuance matters, most engineers are happy with just a quick, solid take, that they can quickly edit, mix, and send off by next week. Nobody cares about YOUR sound, unless it's your record. Your bass is gonna end up sounding however the track/engineer needs it to sound. I've spent a LOT of money on gear over the years, but I know it's just for me and admiring bassists. And that's ok. I own 2 Fodera Presentation 6s. Nobody needs to or maybe should even own 2 Fodera Presentation 6s. Of course I get compliments on their looks and tone all the time. And it never gets old. Pretty sure most people just see an interesting expensive looking instrument and subliminally decide it sounds great. But guaranteed I could get all my work done with a somewhat decent 5 string Squire P-bass with flats and 99.9% of the world wouldn't notice. It doesn't mean our work isn't appreciated. It will always be interpreted differently by different people. That's part of the beauty of music, as scary as it is for our narcissistic, insecure musician brains. What sounds mediocre to you could be the best bass tone somebody's ever heard and vice versa.

But anyway, the more important part of this rant is that you're getting that recording gig because of who you know. Your buddy is the lead guitarist, or that bartender you always hang with at your fav spot is an engineer on the side and has some tracks for you to play on. Or your roommates ex-bf is in an electronica house dub-step power trio and they decided they want some live bass on their upcoming EP. That's just how it is. Your crew, or your circles of networking buddies is how you get your work. And no matter how great a bass player you are, you will only go as far as those connections can get you. I have friends who cut chart topping pop records with huge names, and I have friends who will never make it beyond the NYC club/bar scene. It's really all about who you know. Sure, random opportunities occasionally present themselves, but just think about it. Why would Beyonce hire you as her bassist? Unless you know her personally, or her camp holds a massive un-biased legit audition, her musical director is just gonna call up one of his/her friends. Everybody has friends. But some people are at higher levels in the industry than others. Therefore, so are their friends. Hell, I've got some pretty decently connected good friends and I'll be the first to admit that if it weren't for them, I wouldn't be anywhere. And I've had some great gigs and have been on a healthy amount of records. All because of the people I hang with (sure it doesn't hurt to be a good player, but there are LOTS of good players out there. If it's not you it'll be somebody else). Or you could do something like Thundercat to get noticed (even though his brother is a well connected drummer). I'm sure he's getting tons of good session work these days since the Flying Lotus stuff. Dude crushes on bass and vocals and STILL has to wear a dead animal headdress at every show to get people to remember him!! haha....and no offense to him, he's a super talented bassist, but who the shag is calling Norm Stockton cause they NEED his sound on their record!!?!?! hahaha please I need to know!! ok rant over. sorry guys.

 

[JimmyM]

An honest couple of questions, hopefully some pro's can answer:

A) in a record, the final mix/bass tone, how much is dictated by the producer-engineer etc. Do they do what you want? You can see many players that play bass " A" but record with bass "B" because somebody suggested it.

Well of course the sound tech has a lot of leeway to screw you up, and it does happen sometimes, but more often than not, if I tell the soundman what I like in the PA, I get it. And I DO check.

B) In a live situation ( PA support) where you can use your gear, how much of your tone is projected to the audience? I have read interview s of big cats where they said that they care about the sound on stage and let the soundman to do whatever they want.

Depends on the rig. My smaller ones don't really project that much, but my bigger ones do, even when the volume is about the same. But I do my best to get the same sound out of my DI line as my amp through sonic trickery

 

[JimmyM]

Fixed it for you. I don't use any effects but I could care less if you or anyone else does.

I'm not that awesome, either.

First off, my words are written in stone as far as anyone else is concerned so there shall be no more "fixing" Second, if you have to fix it, you should replace "some" with "most." Third, you're as awesome as you wanna be!

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

The OP is only partically correct. People other than musicians may not be able to point to what they like or dont like, but they know something isn't right.
The bass player's tone is only one of the things that can turn people on or off.
Guitar tone
Is everyone in tune
Is the band tight
Is the timing good or bad
How are the dynamics.

Again, most will not understand the questions, but they experience the result and are affected by it.

 

[BuffaloBob4343]

This is a very philosophical thread. The average non-musician does notice your tone; they just don't know it. It has a subliminal effect at the subconscious level. The average person doesn't think, "Hey, great tone," they just think your band is better than the ten other bands they've seen before you. They can't explain what it is that makes you better; they just know there is something good there. So, for those who think tone doesn't matter to the average person, just keep doing what you're doing, and let the other guys who focus on their sound steal the limelight and really amaze the crowd.

Edit: BTW, this is one thing I never worry about, cause I got the best damn tone there is!

This ^^^^^^^^

We as bass players and musicians are more cognizant of tone and what that tone means to a mix and to a song or a performance, whether live or recorded. But people do hear it and it does impact them one way or the other. Maybe most people are not tuned in enough to make a conscious note of it, but it does impact them on some level, whether they realize it or not. So, why not strive for "your" tone and create the impact on your audience you want to create and let the chips fall where they may. You'll be happy, and every once and a while, someone will come up to you and say: "DUDE! Your tone is awesome man." - in an albeit wasted and slurred annunciation, and you will smile as you think to yourself, "Damn straight!"

 

[socialleper]

While we are at it, let's look at it this way. I'm a married man and we are very happy with each other. I don't have to wear cologne she likes, or look for jeans that she says makes my "butt look good," but I do it because going that extra step is nice.
Sure, some slack jawed dip stick that is yelling for me to play Free Bird even though I'm not playing covers can't tell the difference between a SX P bass and a my Lakland 44-02. I can and the people with opinions I care about do.

 

[socialleper]

Yes, the audience is a necessary evil.

This +10.
It is nothing against music fans per say, but audiences are made up of people, and from what I've observed, the largest portion of people aren't too sharp.

 

[socialleper]

Not really. Only necessary for those who seek approval for what they're doing.

And their money for tickets.
And their money for CDs.
And their money for merch.
And their word of mouth to get our name out there.
Pretty much everything.

 

[David Jayne]

...I could get all my work done with a somewhat decent 5 string Squire P-bass with flats and 99.9% of the world wouldn't notice. It doesn't mean our work isn't appreciated. It will always be interpreted differently by different people. That's part of the beauty of music, as scary as it is for our narcissistic, insecure musician brains. What sounds mediocre to you could be the best bass tone somebody's ever heard and vice versa.

Quoted for truthiness. One man's trash.......I for example was working with a guitarist one night who was going for a really trashy, dirty tone that reminded me of Keith Richards on early Stones stuff. Which to me is an awful tone generally but works in context, and he was quite offended when I (OOPS!) said so. I was sure he was doing it to be cheeky but no, that's his sound, man.

 

[sotua]

I do care how I sound on stage. I trust whoever's doing sound to get a good mix in the house, but on stage I get MUCH more into it if I dig the way I sound and hear myself.

And here's is the deal: Most of the audience doesn't really care about your tone. However, if you don't like your tone you will be annoyed and play differently. If the tone is pleasing you'll play with more joy and your audience will hear *that*. If, for example, your tone is too thin or too quiet, you'll try to compensate playing differently or harder, and it will detract frmo your performance.

 

[klokker]

Haven't read the whole thread, but its probably true that few people "pay attention" to your tone. But if you as a bass player aren't paying ANY attention to what you sound like, what's the point?

Having said THAT, I'm happy with a fairly wide variety of tonal possibilities. Given the bands I'm in and the situations I find myself in, I don't have the luxury of being too picky most of the time. If I'm sitting in the mix reasonably well, can hear myself and be heard, I'm pretty much OK with it.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Starts at 1:57

 

[JSandbloom]

I don't like this idea that a 3 Pro is settling from a DB751

I love my old 3Pro, and it comes in very close to the round sound I get out of the DB750. Just the DB750 is in style these days so I have to play it!

 

[JimmyM]

So what have we learned in this thread so far?

1. You are nothing to anyone, so act like it.

2. You should always gear your entire presentation toward the most stupid and music-illiterate people in your audiences.

3. Practice schmactice! Just play any old bassline. Doesn't matter even if you're in a different key.

4. Hell, just go home. Nobody likes you or even cares about you even a little, and your only real function is helping with setup and teardown.

 

[Muddslide]

So what have we learned in this thread so far?

1. You are nothing to anyone, so act like it.

2. You should always gear your entire presentation toward the most stupid and music-illiterate people in your audiences.

3. Practice schmactice! Just play any old bassline. Doesn't matter even if you're in a different key.

4. Hell, just go home. Nobody likes you or even cares about you even a little, and your only real function is helping with setup and teardown. Just come back at 2 am to help schlep gear.

That cracked me up. And sincerely, JimmyM, I really enjoy reading your posts and think you have a wealth of good info and wisdom to share, to the greater benefit of TB'ers everywhere.

I can't speak for the OP, but maybe in some way what he was getting at is that, with all the variables factored in (extraneous club noise, the other musicians playing along with you in the band, the fact that for at least a portion of the audience the music is secondary (or tertiary) behind having a good time, and that the part of the audience who ARE there to dig the music want to hear good songs played well, it may be a very small percentage of audience folk who could or would ponder it all and say to themselves "You know, I think what was wrong with that show was that the bass player's tone was lacking."

But as others have pointed out, it may well be that crap tone from the low end COULD BE the thing that causes a band's performance to fall short to the average listener.

It's kind of The Curse Of The Bass Player in a sense...most people (IMO) don't really single out the bass in a song and pay close attention to it (in most genres of music anyway...) but if you REMOVE the bass from a song they are familiar with--they KNOW that something is wrong. Something is missing.

I mean, you've been on stage before and looked out on the pretty fillies in the audience swaying and bobbing their heads and shaking that boo-boo a little. It's one of the greatest feelings in the world to know that the music you are making is inciting them to dance and trance out and groove.

The sad thing is, I reckon it is the BASS that moves them so, more than any other component part of a song. They may be fawning over the singer or lead guitarist, or making time to the drums, but it is the deep, low bassy boom and hum that I think really gets 'em going.

And they don't even KNOW it!

 

[Big Hoss]

except for you!

That really should be sufficient.