Double Bass NS Design WAV4 megathread part I

[endorka]

i love the tone. i too have to completely roll back the treble to get the upright sound i want on pizz.

I rarely use the Arco setting because the pizz definetely captures a more upright tone.

I find these observations interesting, and while perception of tone is ultimately objective, my experience is quite the opposite. On the "pizz" setting, my Wav sounds just like a big fretless bass, while on the "arco" setting it sounds like a double bass - even if I am playing pizzicato. Perhaps the switches have been wired differently or something? When I say "arco", the switch is in the up position.

Jennifer

 

[birdxofxprey]

I find these observations interesting, and while perception of tone is ultimately objective, my experience is quite the opposite. On the "pizz" setting, my Wav sounds just like a big fretless bass, while on the "arco" setting it sounds like a double bass - even if I am playing pizzicato. Perhaps the switches have been wired differently or something? When I say "arco", the switch is in the up position.

Jennifer

Hi Jennifer, when i set mine to the "arco" position (the switch is up) and play pizz the sound becomes trebly and there's a lot of finger and string noise as a result. this may be due to my lack of experience on upright, but it's very distracting to me. anyway, it's the excessive highs and resulting noise that leads me to say that the pizz setting sounds more like a DB to me.

~ chris

 

[adje]

Chris,

True, the arco setting takes some getting used to. If you have a friend who plays double bass, let him/her play the WAV and stand back across the room as they switch between the two settings. From a distance, the arco setting really does sound more DB-like (the pizz setting sounds like a BG from any distance).

Turn down the tone control on the WAV - it's actually pretty subtle as far as a passive tone control goes. It also helps to put genuine DB strings on the WAV, as discussed throughout the thread.

 

[whypeb]

Hi
I find that in the arco position playing pizz it is possable to get a good db sound by using the tone on the bass with a touch of shape or ultra from an amp.
Do you know if euro sonics do heavies in the string department?

 

[Bob Gollihur]

Hi
I find that in the arco position playing pizz it is possable to get a good db sound by using the tone on the bass with a touch of shape or ultra from an amp.
Do you know if euro sonics do heavies in the string department?

Their "mediums" are their heavies, they make Medium, Light, and Ultralight.

 

[mzh000]

SO... how do folks generally feel about the Wavs in this thread? Is the consensus they're great, especially for the money, or that they're ok, but you have to spend money right away to upgrade elex, true the fingerboard, etc.

As mostly an electric player, I'd have to be able to set the action fairly low, as well.

So, whaddya'll think? Should I get one?

From my expereince, to make the Wav sound like a DB, I would do the following:

1) Change the strings to real DB strings -- Helicore Hybrids or the like. Get darker sounding strings. I found the Helicore Pizz too bright. Anyway, strings will set you back $100 more.
2) Use a preamp or make sure your amp has 1M or higher input impedance. So that's potentially another $100.
3) Raise the action -- low action will get you a fretless BG sound with a lot of twang (nothing wrong with it but it's not a DB sound). Raising the action gets you the DB thump. This is free .
4) Learn DB technique -- it's different than BG technique and really affects the sound. A lot people coming from BG to DB don't change technique and the sound suffers. I was guilty of this myself until I started taking DB lessons. Dig into the strings using your right hand index finger up to the 2nd joint to get the solid DB thump. Don't use BG style plucking with just your finger tips. Also, use the the bony tips of your left hand fingers to hold the string down, not the fleshy part of your fingers, to get a more solid tone. Use only the index, middle and pinky, and not the ring, fingers for the lower positions (up to the octave) to get good intonation (your scale length grew from 34 to 41 inches but your hand didn't). Hold down the index and middle fingers when playing with the pinky to avoid buzz. Similarly, hold down the index when playing with the middle. Also use only the tip of your left thumb on the neck to get good grip pressure to firmly hold the strings down for solid tone. Your left hand should look like a "C" clamp and act like one. Anyway, you may want to budget cost of lessons to your total cost.

So I think the NS Wav is great for the money but you need to invest in strings, maybe preamp, and lessons to get that DB sound. A several hundred dollar expense over and above the cost of the Wav.

 

[Vic]

Wow, GREAT post mzh000, thanks!

Couple things...

From my expereince, to make the Wav sound like a DB, I would do the following:

1) Change the strings to real DB strings -- Helicore Hybrids or the like. Get darker sounding strings. I found the Helicore Pizz too bright. Anyway, strings will set you back $100 more.

Yeah, but DB strings last forever, so that's not a big deal.

2) Use a preamp or make sure your amp has 1M or higher input impedance. So that's potentially another $100.

Right, and I've got a SansAmp ParaDI, which I believe has this, so at least for me, got it covered.

3) Raise the action -- low action will get you a fretless BG sound with a lot of twang (nothing wrong with it but it's not a DB sound). Raising the action gets you the DB thump. This is free .

Yep. Had that covered, tho I might go somewhere between since it's been many years since I've played DB, and I wouldn't mind skipping the blood blister phase.

4) Learn DB technique -- it's different than BG technique and really affects the sound.

Yep, got that covered too... at least I know what I should be doing... I've had some training and know what it is, I'd just have to practice it again. However, for someone who wasn't familiar, you did a fantastic job of succinctly encapsulating all the most important points!

 

[whypeb]

Do the Corelli 370 strings fit the Wav without having to string them through the back plate? I have read in the thread that by doing this it may cause stress to the body plus would it not cause problems in situations where you may have to change a single string in a hurry?

 

[whypeb]

Ihave checked out some 3/4 regs is it possible to put some kind of guidance into the orignal string hole over the body similar to the pads used on the fishmans bp or has anyone tried a kinda tail end peice.What would you recomend the bridge to be adjusted to bearing in mind i like to dig in.

 

[BassBus]

Are you suggesting wrapping the strings around the very end of the body? DON'T DO IT! Someone tried that with a CR some time ago and ruined the end of the body completely. Even showed photos of it when selling. If the strings don't fit through the original holes drill them out just a bit so the strings fit, that's what these holes are there for.

 

[Illbay]

4) Learn DB technique -- it's different than BG technique and really affects the sound....Use only the index, middle and pinky, and not the ring, fingers for the lower positions (up to the octave) to get good intonation (your scale length grew from 34 to 41 inches but your hand didn't).

This has been on my mind since getting my WAV4. It has been a LONG time, but I did take DB back in high school and college, and played in the college symphony, etc.

I have set the action on the WAV4 pretty high, and it does "feel" like a standard DB. However, it is STILL very easy to stop the strings using the "regular" four-finger method, from what I've experienced. I'm not sure I discern any real difference in tone if I "back up" the pinky with the ring finger, for example. It just seems like normal BG style fingering will work, but you have to prepare for the wider position leaps - easier to do with the position markers.

Anyone else have any comment on this?

 

[mzh000]

Backing up the pinky with the ring finger is OK and should be done. Just don't play the note a whole step above the index finger with the ring finger. It will tend to be flat. Use the pinky (with the other fingers backing it up).

 

[MacDaddyBass]

Huh? I don't quite understand. Are you saying someone actually tried to wrap the strings around the bottom without going through the holes on the bottom of the CR? That's crazy. I use spirocore weichs and even those fit in the holes (with a little finagling).

 

[crazy_bassist]

^^ The rep for SF marketing which deals with the WAV4 product was telling me a few weeks ago that this a common problem with the NS's earlier round(s) of basses and that the designer is now watching over the quality control in China to make sure that it doesn't happen again, but there were a ton on backorder at the time, hence why they are unsure as to when they will get to yours as other people are having the same problems.

Having played one probably a year before, I fell in love with this bass. It was so easy to play compared to the 4/4 size stand up I was playing with beforehand (which I don't have anymore as it was borrowed ) and just felt good in my hands. It also sounded amazing and if I had the cash I would totally pick one up.

 

[Illbay]

It was so easy to play compared to the 4/4 size stand up I was playing with beforehand...

Hey, Craze! (If you don't know what that references, you're too young!)

How would you compare the WAV4 and the UB insofar as playability, etc.? I know that the sound can't really compare (at least if the UB is a decent one), but how about the way it feels, as you put it?

 

[theaterbass29]

Really long thread. Congrats to all the NS WAV and other owners, they truly are a great step towards portable upright bass. Several of you have asked about reliability and touring with this instrument, so I will give you my take.
I traveled with various country acts out of Nashville all last year in 2007 and took a new WAV4 with me with the additional road case for the buses. I highly recommend this case, even though its really expensive.
My first NS WAV, as many, had major neck issues. I consider myself a pretty good tech and setups are my specialty, but this bass wouldnt set up at all without buzz. I ended up sending it to David at NS and he replaced the bass with a brand new one. While there, I had him install one of the taller bridges, like on the CR-4T. When I got the new bass, I installed DAddario Hybrid Mediums, and added an Xotic RC preamp with velcro to the back plate. Remember to unplug the input to conserve battery power. By using this preamp, I gained Bass and Treble EQ along with (really clean) headroom. After that, I took it to a Fishman Platinum Pro Preamp/DI. Of course, I didnt need the preamp, but the graphic EQ and compression is useful along with the bottom maximizer, and of course, D.I. function. I set this rig up with a Morley ABY switcher and switched between Electric Bass and the WAV going to the same amp, which was a MarkBass CMP102 500 Wt 2x10 combo. I had nothing but great comments from fans, sound engineers, and artists. The bass has a unique and fresh look, with a familiar sound. Traveling through extreme temperature and climate changes in the south, I can say I never did any more setup work after the initial setup, nor did I turn the truss rod after becoming satisfied with it at first. I never could get the trussrod to adjust this neck to straight, which is what my KingDoublebass is and most of my EB's. However, it appears that these basses are supposed to have a little bow in the neck to function properly. Dont be afraid to crank the rod though, it can handle it, you will know when to stop, because you wont be able to turn it without tools.
I will finish by saying that I ordered a new CR-4M this year for my new position as Music Director of a theater show in Pigeon Forge. The new bass is awesome, but I end up using the same settings that were available on the WAV, with similar results in tone. I highly recommend and endorse all NS products. David and Ned are great to work with and are continuing the pursuit of perfection with these instruments. And at $899, its a great way to introduce yourself to the Upright bass if you have only played Electric.
Hey Bob G., I just ordered a Rockabilly Plus pickup system from you this past week. Its great, using it on a King Slap King, and its perfect with Supernils. Thanks.

 

[SebbyNC]

Hey fellas, I just received my new Wav4. It was hard to get it, as I live in Guadeloupe (French Caribbean) and as I placed my order when all the stores in Europe were out of stock. I had to wait about 6 months since I placed my order, but at least I got it. I could have oredered the bass from the web, but I prefered to go through my local dealer (Top Music, a new guitar shop in Guadeloupe, with a really nice guy). Going through an official dealer is better I think, in case you have a problem with the bass.

Anyways, I'm really delighted. I think my Wav4 is one from the new batch that just arrived in Europe. I didn't see any crack in the fingerboard, which by the way is absolutely beautiful (I don't know what kind of ebony it is actually made of, but it reminds me of Macassar ebony, being mostly black but with few beautiful brown veins). The other bass in the shop had a totally black fingerboard, I chose the veneered one.
The bass is very playable, and it looks like the factory setup is fine. When in "pizzicato" mode, the sound is full and slightly easier to play, but still with an UB-ish sound (I have a fretless bass guitar, and the sound is very different). However, in "arco" mode like everybody I find the sound very UB-like, and less forgiving. It shows me that I really need to develop a specific UB technique to play this bass. But maybe I will also need to change the strings (waiting for a set of Helicore Hybrids).
Last, the stand is of the black kind. I don't know if it has been improved over the first design, but it doesn't look so flimsy to me. there's a slight wobble at the junction between the articulated head and the stem, otherwise it seems rather solid.

I have one question about the position marks: after the 12th mark, it seems like the notes fall pretty much between the marks instead of on the top marks as it is before the 12th position. Is it normal? Should I (and can I) set up the intonation at the bridge?

 

[smakbass]

Well with double bass you should use your ears, not the markers its a bad habit to be looking at your hand when your playing either way so try to just ignore them,,one upright player suggested taking a black marker or something to try to erase them as they can become a crutch.

 

[Bard2dbone]

But I can see how they could be a useful crutch (as crutches are supposed to be) because you don't get any of the position cues that a DB body would give you. It's basically just an endless neck, kind of scary.

I haven't played an upright since high school and I want one of these badly, but I'm kind of intimidated, and I mainly play fretless. I can't imagine how disturbing the jump to one of these things would be for a fretted player.

 

[SebbyNC]

Thanks Smakbass, but I actually know that I should not focus on these markers all the time.

It's more that I'm concerned that my bass' intonation might be off. Of course I can adjust my playing by hear (that's precisely how I found that issue, my ear didn't agree with the markers), but if it's just a setup problem then I'd rather have my bass set up well, as it should be.