Ok, so what bass evolution do you actually want?

[g-dude]

I didn't say never, but not for centuries, and most of the changes have been either cosmetic, or for minor changes in tone. No where near the same as people asking for different necks, bridges, pickups, number of strings, etc. as with basses

The violin emerged from instruments like the lira da braccio and the lira da gamba (viol da gamba). There were fretted viols. The first depiction of a violin had three strings. The fingerboard changed lengths over time as well as its orientation. Scale length changed. String tension changed. The method of attaching the neck changed. The actual strings used changed. Mechanical amplification has been introduced. Electric violins were invested. You can now get five string violins.

Literally everything you listed: different necks, bridges (I’m sure those have developed over time), “pickups” (substitute how the sound projection occurs), number of strings, etc. has changed.

I think you’re failing to appreciate just how much innovation has occurred, and that’s just of the items we know about - it doesn’t include failed attempts along the way that never made it outside of workshops.

And this was without modern technology and tools.

Seriously, you’re really doing a disservice to the history of musical instruments.

 

[g-dude]

I think we are conflating evolution with revolution. Evolution is things like improved pickups better finishes and refining design details.

what is being discussed here is revolutionary designs.

Generally revolutionary products don’t do well. Of course occasionally someone discovers a much better design. But most designs that are revolutionary are just companies looking to make a splash and standout. It doesn’t usually end well. For a non bass example google the Snauwert Ergonom.

Most revolutionary products are doomed to fail for precisely the same reasons that some revolutionary products succeed: they attempt to change the paradigm.

If the piano had never been invented, music played on acoustic keyboard instruments would sound dramatically different. All those harpsichord trills and mordants that we’re used to hearing were an attempt to create musical alternatives to the fundamental weakness of the instrument: the lack of playing dynamics. Nowadays you just don’t see baroque levels of ornamentation in music because you don’t really need to - you have volume dynamics, and that can really spice up the music nicely.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I want the little truss rod wheel thingy on my Fender neck.

The the Sadowsky, MM, Valenti style trussed wheel, not the Fender Ultra version.

 

[g-dude]

The the Sadowsky, MM, Valenti style trussed wheel, not the Fender Ultra version.

How well do those work anyways? Can one really exert the proper level of torque versus the modern allen head at the base of the neck?

 

[buldog5151bass]

The violin emerged from instruments like the lira da braccio and the lira da gamba (viol da gamba). There were fretted viols. The first depiction of a violin had three strings. The fingerboard changed lengths over time as well as its orientation. Scale length changed. String tension changed. The method of attaching the neck changed. The actual strings used changed. Mechanical amplification has been introduced. Electric violins were invested. You can now get five string violins.

Literally everything you listed: different necks, bridges (I’m sure those have developed over time), “pickups” (substitute how the sound projection occurs), number of strings, etc. has changed.

I think you’re failing to appreciate just how much innovation has occurred, and that’s just of the items we know about - it doesn’t include failed attempts along the way that never made it outside of workshops.

And this was without modern technology and tools.

Seriously, you’re really doing a disservice to the history of musical instruments.

Exactly my point. The viol da gamba is a 15th century instrument (and not a violin). In other words, approximately 600 years ago, the violin reached it's present form.

 

[g-dude]

Exactly my point. The viol da gamba is a 15th century instrument (and not a violin). In other words, approximately 600 years ago, the violin reached it's present form.

Except it didn’t. All of those changes I listed were subsequent changes to the first depiction of a Violin less than 500 years ago.

 

[buldog5151bass]

The violin has been in it's present form for hundreds of years. It is not uncommon for players to play an instrument hundreds of years old.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

How well do those work anyways? Can one really exert the proper level of torque versus the modern allen head at the base of the neck?

Yes, you just put a screwdriver, nail, or whatever through the holes on one side and it goes through to the opposite side, then just turn as you would an Allen key or a Phillips end truss rod. The Fender Ultra abomination was like the wheel in Tinker Toys and you had to buy a 1/8" punch to fit in the hole properly, but it only went in a little less than an eighth of an inch and very easy to stretch out the hot in the truss rod. Truss Rod wheels - good, Fender's version - bad.

 

[g-dude]

The violin has been in it's present form for hundreds of years. It is not uncommon for players to play an instrument hundreds of years old.

Sigh...

Modernization around 1800
The upheavals that followed the French Revolution also had far-reaching repercussions in the world of music. The responsibility for organizing and financing musical events shifted from the aristocracy to the bourgeoisie and concerts became a regular feature of society life. Since these were held in ever larger halls, louder instruments with thicker bows were required. Violin makers were therefore forced to make those alterations to the instrument which resulted in the development of the modern violin at the turn of the 19th century; old instruments were “modernized” to meet the new requirements: the bridge was raised to increase string tension and thereby the volume. This also altered the angle of the strings to the fingerboard, so that the musician would have had to apply more pressure to play the high notes. This difficulty was counteracted by placing the neck at a backward angle, thus maintaining equal distance between strings and fingerboard along its length. At the same time both the neck and the fingerboard were lengthened. To cope with the increased pressure of the strings on the table the bass bar and sound post were also reinforced.

The strings were made stronger too, so that they could withstand the increased tension. It had long been customary to cover the G strings, which had a gut core, with metal. Nowadays the G string is often silver-wound. It is not completely clear whether the D and A strings were also covered in the 19th century; today aluminum-wound gut strings are generally used. The E string was also made of gut in the 19th century and was not replaced by a steel one until the 20th century. Nylon and steel strings are currently in use.

The modern bow was developed within the space of a few decades, the French bow maker François Tourte (1747–1835) playing a leading role: the bow became longer and stronger; its weight was changed, the center of gravity moved and the tension increased, which made more powerful strokes possible, such as martelé (hammered, short powerful strokes).

In around 1820 the German composer and violin virtuoso Louis Spohr (1784–1859) invented the chin-rest, which facilitated the sliding movement of the left hand.

 

[g-dude]

Yes, you just put a screwdriver, nail, or whatever through the holes on one side and it goes through to the opposite side, then just turn as you would an Allen key or a Phillips end truss rod. The Fender Ultra abomination was like the wheel in Tinker Toys and you had to buy a 1/8" punch to fit in the hole properly, but it only went in a little less than an eighth of an inch and very easy to stretch out the hot in the truss rod. Truss Rod wheels - good, Fender's version - bad.

So is it “better” or just different?

 

[buldog5151bass]

Sigh...

Modernization around 1800
The upheavals that followed the French Revolution also had far-reaching repercussions in the world of music. The responsibility for organizing and financing musical events shifted from the aristocracy to the bourgeoisie and concerts became a regular feature of society life. Since these were held in ever larger halls, louder instruments with thicker bows were required. Violin makers were therefore forced to make those alterations to the instrument which resulted in the development of the modern violin at the turn of the 19th century; old instruments were “modernized” to meet the new requirements: the bridge was raised to increase string tension and thereby the volume. This also altered the angle of the strings to the fingerboard, so that the musician would have had to apply more pressure to play the high notes. This difficulty was counteracted by placing the neck at a backward angle, thus maintaining equal distance between strings and fingerboard along its length. At the same time both the neck and the fingerboard were lengthened. To cope with the increased pressure of the strings on the table the bass bar and sound post were also reinforced.

The strings were made stronger too, so that they could withstand the increased tension. It had long been customary to cover the G strings, which had a gut core, with metal. Nowadays the G string is often silver-wound. It is not completely clear whether the D and A strings were also covered in the 19th century; today aluminum-wound gut strings are generally used. The E string was also made of gut in the 19th century and was not replaced by a steel one until the 20th century. Nylon and steel strings are currently in use.

The modern bow was developed within the space of a few decades, the French bow maker François Tourte (1747–1835) playing a leading role: the bow became longer and stronger; its weight was changed, the center of gravity moved and the tension increased, which made more powerful strokes possible, such as martelé (hammered, short powerful strokes).

In around 1820 the German composer and violin virtuoso Louis Spohr (1784–1859) invented the chin-rest, which facilitated the sliding movement of the left hand.

You're right - only 200 years...

 

[drumvsbass]

01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110111 00100000 01110000 01110101 01110011 01110011 01111001 01100011 01100001 01110100 00100001

 

[WestyBassBob]

Most revolutionary products are doomed to fail for precisely the same reasons that some revolutionary products succeed: they attempt to change the paradigm.

If the piano had never been invented, music played on acoustic keyboard instruments would sound dramatically different. All those harpsichord trills and mordants that we’re used to hearing were an attempt to create musical alternatives to the fundamental weakness of the instrument: the lack of playing dynamics. Nowadays you just don’t see baroque levels of ornamentation in music because you don’t really need to - you have volume dynamics, and that can really spice up the music nicely.

That’s a pretty good example. The harpsichord and piano have some similarities but the method by which they produce sounds are drastically different. Furthermore the increased volume and sustain and durability were just so obviously superior to the old instrument that eventually it was relegated to being an ancient and historical instrument.

 

[g-dude]

You're right - only 200 years...

You missed the part about the change in string technology in the 20th century.

So basically, you have an instrument that evolved over the span of 500 years. Sometimes you went for periods of time without some changes, but the fact of the matter remains that evolution continued to occur even after Antonio Stradivari perfected the instrument.

And I use perfected without quotes, because even though the instrument continued to evolve, he definitely produced an instrument that set the high water mark that people have been attempting to emulate ever since.

 

[g-dude]

That’s a pretty good example. The harpsichord and piano have some similarities but the method by which they produce sounds are drastically different. Furthermore the increased volume and sustain and durability were just so obviously superior to the old instrument that eventually it was relegated to being an ancient and historical instrument.

Or occasionally used for effect in the 60s. Then again, so was the Mellotron.

 

[Chad Michael]

... a "wide / wide" MM Stingray Classic

 

[WestyBassBob]

Or occasionally used for effect in the 60s. Then again, so was the Mellotron.

Sure. And some people play lutes and lyres too. But they are not popular music anymore. But in their day they were. Someday people will say this about the bass.

Just kidding the bass will rule forever.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

So is it “better” or just different?

I think it’s better, if you’re out on a gig you can find something to adjust the truss rod without needing a 5/32” Allen key.

 

[GretschWretch]

A horn loaded acoustic bass guitar like a stroh violin, except huge and all built into the body of the bass. Get on it, Fender.

This is a step in the right direction, but it still is not at the end of the rainbow.

 

[legalbass]

Man, who knew the history of the evolution of the violin was such hotly contested subject...