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One cabinet for stoopid loud gigs...options?

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Chris Fitzgerald, Jun 21, 2007.

  1. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    I don't know how Jeremy plans to "entice" the Bass Cellar guys to join in the fun (and I'm not sure i wanna know, if you know what I mean :bag: ), but that would surely be a great option if it were possible - I'd love to see the new digs as well, and they certainly have enough nice basses around to keep things interesting when the amps and speakers start to lose their charm. Maybe the fact that the TB blog about the event with accompanying pics and soundclips would be good advertising?

    Or not, especially since nobody at the last hang was exactly what you might call "photogenic"... although Phil and I could manage a pretty passable "Laurel and Hardy as bassplayers" schtick. :D
  2. Jeremy Allen

    Jeremy Allen Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2002
    Bloomington, IN
    Well shucks, I'll just call up Andy and ask him. Couldn't hurt. If I don't get anywhere by phone, I'll move on to my second level of enticement, which involves...beer. If asking nicely and offering beer don't do the trick, I'm out of ideas, because that's all that's ever worked for me!
  3. Uncletoad


    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    Liquor, Sex and Food are the usual luthier enticements.

    I'd try those first.
  4. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    In that order?
  5. Uncletoad


    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    Well for me I'm thinking Sex and Food first but everyone's priorities are different.
  6. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    That's just because you're a new papa. This, too, shall pass. :)
  7. Kam


    Feb 12, 2006
    Minneapolis, MN
    I recently picked up a used EA CxL112 cab that has been able to perform at stoopided sound levels with both slab and real bass. Needless to say, I'm now a huge EA fan. :cool:
  8. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    Well, as luck would have it Jack Helsley happened to be in the neighborhood of the 'Ville today with his NL210, WW 400, and NS LaScala in tow, and was kind enough to stop in for an afternoon hang.*

    I got some pics of the cabs next to each other, but I'll have to wait until after the gig to post them. The quick and dirty version:

    - The NL210 isn't really much bigger than a VL208, and weighs considerably less.

    - The 8-ohm NL 210 is almost as loud as two of the 208s, and way louder than just one when driven by either amp.

    - The 210 sounds really, really good. It's a little more forward and aggressive than the 208s are in the mids, but they sound remarkably similar beyond that. Kudos to EA for that, especially using neo drivers.

    - The biggest difference between the two cabs is that the VL 208 always sounds relaxed no matter what's going on, no matter whether it's going full tilt boogie or just playing quietly on cruise control. The NL210 gets a little more of an "I RULE ALL HELL WITH AN IRON FIST" vibe when it really gets going, which would be kinda cool on the kinds of gigs I started this thread about. Plus, it would save about 60 lbs of schlep as compared to dragging two of the 208s to a gig.

    - The Focus 2R (series III) isn't really any louder than the WW400 at all. Both sounded great with all cabs. At higher volumes, we both liked the ability of the HP filter on the Focus to tame the low lows on both cabs, but other than that, they were remarkably similar.

    - While I think Jack might be slightly deranged for rackmounting a nice small little amp like the WW, his face doesn't actually smell even one tiny bit. I think this must be a rumor started by Joel Kelsey in an attempt to shark some of Jack's gigs. Plus, Jack has a really cool gigmobile, which Joel may be somewhat jealous of...I know I was.

    More later after the gig!

    * Okay, while that's all true, he's almost as big a gear dork as I am and we both just wanted to compare the NL210 to the VL208s. :D
  9. Uncletoad


    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    Tom Gearhead Bowlus has said similar things about that NL210 box.


    Ouch. That sound right up my alley.

    I didn't read this thread.....
  10. bribass


    Jan 25, 2006
    Northern NJ
    Endorsing Artist; Arnold Schnitzer/ Wil DeSola New Standard RN DB
  11. joel kelsey

    joel kelsey

    Aug 1, 2006
    Chicago, IL

    I am more jealous of his playing than his car....... I am also jealous that there is a photo of Jack that is framed, displayed, and for sale at the Jazz Kitchen. Ironically, buying the photo of Jack actually costs more than hiring him. I was thinking talkbass could take a collection, purchase the photo and then pass it around (like the Stanley cup) for inspirato. Any takers?
  12. gnergaard


    May 31, 2002
    Chicago, IL USA
    I just finished 2 gigs yesterday with an Epifani UL310, Upright (w/full circle), a 1400 watt power amp and a Demeter HBP1.
    One of the best, most versatile rigs I've ever used. One of the gigs was outside, maybe 2,000 people. LOUD. I was pretty loud both on stage and in the house system. I played through 2 Epi 3x10 cabs for this one, Playing URB while standing maybe 10 feet in front of a very 'rock'-looking stack of speakers was always intimidating for me. So much so that I stopped bringing the upright to these kinds of gigs. Yesterday was the first time I've dared to do this in a few years and I'm really happy that it worked so well.
    Sound was very, very good. Very little EQ was necesssary in the house or on stage.
    The other gig was a late night bar gig playing Jazz and then Funk- maybe "Free Funk" is a deserved moniker for our 3rd set- as the crowd gets drunker, we play both louder and more outside (sorry, but that's the truth!). Loud-ass drummer. In the past I usually used a 1x12 and a 'woods Ultra for this gig and complained that I ran out of head-room. Tonight I "had to" (heh-heh) bring the 3x10 rig (just one of the cabs) because I was coming directly from the first, outdoor gig. I was so happy with my sound tonight in this very challenging environment. Not so happy with my playing because my hands were just plain old tired! In a little cramped bar we bassists always end up standing directly in front of the amp and 1/2 the reason we can't turn our volume up is becuase of feed back. This might be very similar to the situation you are playing in, Chris. But tonight, standing 2 feet from the speaker cab I could be as loud -or as soft- as I wanted. Head room- gotta love it.
    Epifani's cabinets aren't the flattest response out there, but they are much closer than most of the other 'Rock' manufacturers like Eden, Ampeg, Ashdown, etc. The UL3x10 has got some magic to it's design- I like the sound better than any other Epifani configuration. And at 42 LBS I carry it with one hand. It's a big box, but very,very light and easy to move. I bet the UL210 is a little smaller and lighter, but I would recommend a 4 ohm load. Give it lots of juice. You can expect to drive these cabs with twice as much power as the rated RMS power handling. Especially if you want a clean sound (most URB players do)
    I haven't tried the new E.A. nl210, but I like what people are saying. What I HAVE played through is the old Vl210 (hated it),
    cxl110 (hated it- blew two speakers), VL108 (LLLLLlllllllovvvvvve it, but not nearly enough for this kind of volume). I would really like to hear the results of an A/B comparison of the Epifani UL210 and the E.A. NL210.
    One other thing worth noting here is about power amps- they are not all created equal! The amp I used last night is my heavy weight rack rig (actually not too heavy compared to other amps) with 2 pres and a <ahem> Peavey <ahem> DPC 1400x single space power amp. I also own a Walter Woods Ultra and though these two amps have very similar RMS ratings- guess what- the peavey is much, much Much louder and clearer at high volumes. The rack rig (with two peramps) is proably 24-30 Lbs and the 'woods is 6 Lbs- so please understand that I'm not complaining about the Woods- just saying that sometimes bigger does mean louder.
    My point is that if the Acoustic Image amp you use is anything like the 'Woods then you might just not have enough amp to push the speakers- and I don't care what RMS output rating the amp has.
    Other, more tech-savy, TB-ers can probably tell us why this is true, but one listening comparison is all your ears would need to realize that this is the case.
    That's my 2 (or 200) cents. Sorry this was such a long post. I've spent a lot of time and thought recently on making URB work in loud situations and I hope my experiences and recent solutions are useful to you.
  13. i've got a wizzy 10 in cincy (and a hissy micro300 too). my wife and kids are out of town the 3rd week of july, so i could host a small belchfest.

    the basses i have to be abuse are an old kay with a full circle and string charger, fender jazz, and a steinberger bass cello if it doesn't sell before then... the only other amp i have is a swr cali blonde.

    i have really tolerant neighbors too :)

  14. ...yeah, well Chris pretty much played me under the table...especially when he made me do it on HIS bass...

    ...the Element was about all I had left...

    ...see...it's so...shiny...

    oh...look over there...

  15. Uncletoad


    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    He made you do it on his bass? With who? Under the table?
  16. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    You are a silly, silly man. I did no such thing, and you sounded wonderful on both basses. The only concession I will make to the above is that the high barbed wire on my bass can be pretty daunting when you're not used to it...and sometimes even when you are. :D I lost my "barbed wire" stamina about halfway through the second set last night (last night was the fifth gig night in a row, and I don't usually play that much with the action up that high), and never got it back. Playing your bass made me think of compromising on string height to somewhere between where our basses were set. As if I need anything else to obsess about...

    Indeed. Here's a picture of my cat's reaction to the raw power of the NL 210 once it got going in "IRON FIST" mode:


    Last, here's a pic of the 210 sitting next to the two 208s. Did I mention that it was almost as loud as both, but way lighter than just one? :hyper:

    Attached Files:

  17. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    That sounds great. What day(s) of that week are potentially available?

    Anybody have any idea how two Wizzy 10's might compare to an NL210?

    I'd like that too. I hope to hear Joel's UL210 before too long, and will be sure to report in. I don't know if I'll get to hear it with an NL210 sitting right next to it, but that would be even better!

    Yeah, I'm hopeless...:help:
  18. joel kelsey

    joel kelsey

    Aug 1, 2006
    Chicago, IL
    The UL 210 is a nice cab. I like it, but I don't love it. I liked Jack's EA cabinet better. However, I never got to try my bass (old chech or German factory bass with a full circle) or my Iamp 800 through Jack's rig. I have been very happy with my rig since I got the full circle. Sometimes I roll a touch of the low end offof it, but otherwise I run it flat. As far as loudness goes the Epifani is by far overkill for pretty much all of my gigs. The Epi cabinet is also a little bulky for my needs as well. It is light, but pretty big. Good cabinet for double bass, but not great. I am actually not even sure if there is such a thing as a great db amp or cabinet.......
  19. Monday thru Thursday, any eve, I'll be a temporary bachelor :)

  20. Dang, that 210 is a biggun. Even the EA logo is large. I have a hangup about showing up to a gig playing DB thru such a large cab, but that's just me. FWIW, I heard a guy playing porkchop thru a UL310 and it sounded killer. It was an Epi head too, but I don't know which one.

    I've been following this thread with some interest as lots of informative posts have been made. I'm also curious whether someone else might recommend the M-line wizzy 12. I'm liking the 10 a whole bunch right now, thinking I might want the 12 for louder things. I remember an older shootout Bowlus did in which he crowned the original Wizzy as the king of cabs in the standalone category.

    Just curious, are you using your mic for these loud - a$$ gigs?And the ply or hybrid?
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