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One cabinet for stoopid loud gigs...options?

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Chris Fitzgerald, Jun 21, 2007.


  1. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    But of course. :D

    Edit:

    I'd be up for another Belchfest, as well. I enjoyed the heck out of the last one. I should have some fun things to bring by then, as well. Just as a teaser, I'll mention that the Berg HT110 and IP153 seem especially well-suited for upright, and I hope to have a Phil Jones Flight Case in my hands pretty soon. I only played electric through one at NAMM, but a friend of mine has found it to be especially good for upright (as well as slab), and I would expect similar results.

    Tom.
     
  2. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    So, where is the review?
     
  3. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Oh man, are you saying that I need to cross-reference my 1x8, 1x10, 1x12 and 2x10 shootouts!?!?! :eek:

    Actually, that's not a bad idea. I just need the time to do it. :rollno:

    I also need to work on the 1x15, 2x8, 4x10, 2x12 and general 'oddball' cab shootout. :p

    In a nutshell, though, the M-line Wizzy and NL-210 are closer in tone than you might think at first, especially the newer 'Series II' NL-210's (which I have not heard, but which I understand to be even warmer than the original NL-210). The tweeter is the most obvious difference, and then there are the nuances of how 12's and 10's deliver their sonic information. Let me try to dig up my notes, or better yet, break out both cabs and give them a fresh listen.

    Tom.
     
  4. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    Yes. Or perhaps the belchfest should do a reprise and we can evaluate them then.

    With Tom in the mix from northern Ohio Columbus looks a bit more centralized. Having the little bambino has been hamstringing my travel possibilities too so if folks are interested I could put together the same belchfest arrangements as last time.

    With more effervescence for proper belches.

    Anyone game? Wanna look at some dates?

    ...having said that I'd do the Cinci bass cellar thing for sure. I'd love to play some more basses:bassist:
     
  5. Hello from the EB side. Since I play all this stuff, and have heard most of it with DB, I thought I'd chime in.

    The NL-210 is a really nice, warm mid punchy cab with a lot of sizzle up top. I haven't played the M-Line Wizzy, but this cab has very little in common with the standard Wizzy. Much louder, much deeper low end, obviously a completely different 2K+ response, and the mids are shifted up. Quite frankly, it doesn't really seem like a DB cab to me. The newest version is quite light, and while still a 210,, it is much louder and fuller than any single 112 I've heard, and most 210's on the market Also, unlike the old VL210's, the NL is highly efficient... loud per watt. It comes in a 4ohm special order version, which is nice if you are using only one and a smaller, lower powered SS head.

    The Epi210UL is MUCH wider sounding... deeper bass, somewhat scooped mids, and an even more aggressive top end... everything you DB guys hate!

    The only small (112/210 sized) cab I've ever heard/owned/played that would match the OP's definition of 'stupid loud' is the Schroeder 1212L... this cab is a freak of nature volume-wise. It is very voiced to the lower mids, which some like and some don't, but it will sink a wall of Wizzy's! As always, the 'small, loud, low.. you can have two of the three' comes into play... but man, does that cab scream... 42 pounds and 500 watts into it will knock a wall down. I've heard a couple of DB players using the 1210L.... GREAT sounding in a busy mix (rockabilly, etc.)... I wouldn't recommend it for a jazz trio with an acoustic piano. IMO!
     
  6. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Ken:

    I can see where the regular and M-line Wizzy's might not be the ideal match for certain uprights, or perhaps not the best solo performance cab, but having heard several different uprights through both the regular and M-line Wizzy's, at least for some basses and in some gigging situations, I think that it is an excellent DB cab. This, of course, is all IME/IMHO, and YMMV, though.

    Tom.
     
  7. Hey Tom... I was actually talking about the NL-210 regarding DB (that was a poorly written sentence!). I would think the Wizzy would be an amazing DB cab. The NL, on the other hand, is quite modern, with that aggressive treble, etc. That screams modern, crisp EB to me. However, with the tweeter turned down, who knows.
     
  8. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Oh, I see. Well, as you hinted at, with the tweeter turned down just a tad, the NL-210 is a highly competent upright cab. It has more midrange warmth than you would expect, and the clarity and dynamics are exceptional. As Chris noted, though, it's almost too good at what it does, though, can can sound perhaps more 'controlled' than what you might expect from an upright rig. Again, for the right bass and the right rig, I could see it working very well.

    The new NM-208 (once it is available) might win some converts, too. The CM-208 proto that I tried reminded me somewhat of a mix between the VL-208 and the NL-210, and I am really interested to hear the neo version.

    Tom.
     
  9. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    My belching opportunities might be pretty limited for awhile, but as long as the potential plans are long range, anything is still possible.

    Tom: any chance you could compare the verious *smallish* Berg IP boxes with the NL210 in terms of volume and sound? I remember liking the IP112 at the last belchfest, but not giving it too much thought because the bottom was too wide (no HP filter) and it was heavy as a mother******. However, if I'm not mistaken, it was smaller than an NL210, which might make it (or some other cab I don't know about yet) a decent compromise.
     
  10. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    The only small IP cab (currently) is the IP112. It is indeed smaller than an NL-210, and fairly close in overall weight (44 lbs for the NL-210 versus 46 lbs for the IP112). Volume-wise, the IP112 is going to be louder, though a 4 ohm NL-210 with some real juice behind it might get close. I have not A/B'd them directly with an upright, so it's hard to compare the tone in meaningful fashion. But, I'll say this - as much as I love my EA cabs, my reference cab for upright amplification is the IP112. Mine is out on loan right now, but I look forward to A/Bing it with the IP153, which might be the cab to knock it off this perch.
     
  11. for the type of gig described at the top of this thread, you might try a markbass traveler 102P. roughly same dimensions as the NL210 but MUCH lighter and really easy to move around. real loud and a decent sound with DB, probably just right for that mission.
     
  12. Although I play BG, I share the upright players love for lightweight, flat (unvoiced) cabs and amps. I recently spent over an hour taste testing the regular and M-line 12 " Wizzys at the Atlanta Bass Gallery. I found that as a solo cab the M-line was much more to my liking, seemed much flatter and had a sweetness to the highs that was very nice.

    However, I already have a cab that performs that function for me (Acme B2) and the big mids of the regular Wizzy have been touted as sitting (and cutting) well in a loud mix. Plus, the 6 lb weight difference made a one hand carry easier for the original Wizzy (critical for getting to the stage in the rib shack circuit here in Atlanta, some of these place are nuts about packing a load of folks into a tiny area, leaving no clear path to the stage).

    The Wizzy 12 ended up being perfect for the gig (75 seat room - drm, gtr, bass plus 4 horns ) and did it with only 220 watts pushing it. Now granted, the band was not fully mic'ed (trumpet and drums were acoustic) and we were conscious of the size of the room, but were still kicking (everyday.mp3, recorded on another night when we were fully mic'ed, although the sound man must have been asleep during the horn solos). Another bass player who was there said that even at the back of the room I was "sitting well in the mix and at the same time had good presence". Stunning performance from a 29 lb cab at a loud gig.

    If the music you are playing has a bit of space for the bass to present itself, then I suspect the M-line would be a better all around choice. But as the "statistical density" goes up the original really shines. Either one will get stupid loud.

    Joe
     
  13. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    I've been using the VL208/108 combo for the past few weeks, and it has been working well so far. Last night was the loudest yet because of a different drummer, and I had the Focus damn near wide open on the master with the pickup pre at about 12 o'clock. The cabs took it all in stride and sounded really good.

    I think I'll put the cab search on hold for a bit and start saving for a Rob Allen Mouse fretless BG as a second option. I loved that damn thing at the belchfest, and I think it would be perfect for these types of things. At worst, it would be a great doubling axe for loud gigs.
     
  14. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    Yea baby. Sounds like me!
     
  15. Jeremy Allen

    Jeremy Allen Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2002
    Bloomington, IN
    Ten years ago, if I showed up with a bass guitar at a jazz gig or even a rehearsal everybody would groan. (Maybe it was my playing...) But I put a Moses graphite fretless neck on my Lakland 4-string last fall, and it just plays like butter. So I bring it around to rehearsals and sort of dial it away from the Jaco sound and toward the upright sound and people are like "Oh, wow, do you wanna...maybe just play that on the gig?" Maybe they're all refreshed by the sound as an alternative to the super-thumpy gut-like thing that has come to replace the Spiro/Underwood sound in that same ten-year span.
     
  16. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY

    I can dig it. I had a gorgeous Ken Smith BSR6P that I would bring to gigs sometimes a few years back, and guys would kind of roll their eyes. It was a great bass, but it was fretted and didn't have that "wood and air" sound. The same thing might happen with the mouse if I get one...for about 10 seconds until the other players heard the first couple of notes. After that, I'm pretty sure they'd all be fine with it. :D
     
  17. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    I'd bring the ply with big gun amps before I'd bring a mouse myself, as cool as the mices are.

    Really, I'll bet you can make the ply many extra DB's louder than the Hybrid...
     
  18. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    Strangely enough, my ply doesn't amplify as well as my hybrid. Go figure...
     
  19. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    Bummer. Whodathunk.
     
  20. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    Progris Riport:

    Have bought a Mouse and two Wizzy 10's, and sold a VL208 and a VL108. Took the Mouse and the 2 Wizzies (Wizzy's? Wizzys? Wiz Ease?) to the little pub gig last night and barely had to open the master on the Focus to be way too loud. The gig was kinda cool for a first gig with a new axe. The mouse sounds great, but it will be a while before I sound great on it. The time is just in a totally different place on slab, and I need to learn to find it. Still, listening back to the recording, it sounded way better than I felt while playing (not surprising since I still have a bad cold). If I ever take the mouse alone to the same gig, I'll only need one speaker cab for sure.

    Next time out, I'll take the big bass and both cabs and see how it goes. Any way you slice it, those puppies are LOUD.
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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