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Original bands playing for free: a chronic problem

#61
If you are doing this for the money, you are in the wrong business. Most clubs will not pay for an original band. They would rather have you put somebody on the door and have a cover charge. You get what you bring in. That way, there is no risk to the venue. My suggestion is to make this arrangement with a club and make sure you pack the place.
Many years ago my band ran into a similar situation. The club held about 300 people. Our agreement was that we take the door and the club would provide advertising. The first time we played, they didn't run an ad and we made a total of $29. The next time, they ran an ad but had the wrong band listed. We made a $100. The next time, I ran the ad. We packed the place to the point that there were people waiting outside to come in. We made over $1,000 that night and then the owner agreed to pay us for future shows. We got $500 for a weeknight and $1,000 on Friday and Saturday. They also made us their house band.
 
#62
ABravado said:
That does make more sense. It's a tricky thing, though, covering costs, because every band is going to have a different definition of what that cost is.
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true, but I'm not saying that we should present the venue with a invoice for the breakdown of gas+gear+rehearsal space or whatever--- all I am saying is that $50 cash would solve everything, and I don't think venues would break the bank by shelling out $30-$50 per band. I'm basically begging for chump change to keep this ship sailing without being a stress and a burden to the individuals in the band. the band van doesn't run on free beer, even if the guitarist does.
 
#63
behemecoytl said:
The ongoing conundrum: bars want live music but won't pay for it. My guitarist suggested trying to organize the local bands and refuse to play for free- anyone have experience with this?

(QUOTE]

The once powerful musicians union prevented the club owners from exploiting the musicians...it was a dark day when the musicians union lost it's battle in court.
It would be a great thing if you could organize - but I would imagine it being very tough. People are playing for different reasons and to some, compensation is not important or worth the trouble of a job action. It;s a horrible business, just like owning a club is so there are two sides to the story to consider... you should ask for the receipts from the admissions at the door or a partial cut.
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#64
I also know allot of this boils down to your market and the types of venues and music you play. My band is booked as much as we want to play and we are an originals band. We get paid flat rate for every show. Some rates are ok, some decent, and some are as good or better than some of our area's best cover bands. We market ourself and put out a good prduct... our music.
 
#65
behemecoytl said:
true, but I'm not saying that we should present the venue with a invoice for the breakdown of gas+gear+rehearsal space or whatever--- all I am saying is that $50 cash would solve everything, and I don't think venues would break the bank by shelling out $30-$50 per band. I'm basically begging for chump change to keep this ship sailing without being a stress and a burden to the individuals in the band. the band van doesn't run on free beer, even if the guitarist does.
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This is my point. Even a small guarantee brings legitimacy to a venue, and a lot of well deserved dignity to musicians.
 
#66
Are there any other places to play besides bars? Maybe try to corral people to another place to show the bars you can take their costumers away, don't refuse to play just play elsewhere. That way if they want costumers they need you. This is all assuming you're really good and all the other bands really suck and that there is somewhere else to play. Try to get the best bands in town, who bring the most people, assuming they too want to get paid?

If everyone is playing for free and there are so many bands and turnover is high that must mean there are a lot of intertwined friendships and connections so maybe try to get other musicians who have that promoting talent, and pool of fans to draw from, to give you a hand on the above mentioned nights?

I have no idea how you do it if the exposure at the venues themselves are really good I'm just throwing it out there.
 
#67
ABravado said:
I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I think this is your problem. If you are in an originals band you'd better love playing because you really aren't going to get paid much. I am part of the problem that you describe and that I've seen rehashed on this site over and over again. I play in an originals band and we are willing to play for free. Or for drinks and food. Not because we are looking for exposure but because we like playing. Music is my social life. On a Friday night I am going to be at a bar anyway. Why not play a set and get some drinks? You would rather watch TV? Great, stay home then. I would rather rock out with my mates and see some local acts. Last Saturday we played a small divey bar that we play at frequently. Headlined a three band lineup. Good turnout. Actually made some (not much) money. Gave it all to the opening act. He was a solo acoustic act touring with his wife. Figured they could use the money.

I have no beef with people who want to make money with their music but an unknown originals band (like mine) will most likely never bring in the coin. Demanding money from these places just means more free drinks for people like me. I know I am part of the problem, and I don't really care.
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^This.^

OP... Bar owners and businessmen know that there will always be someone to replace you if you'd rather not play for free. They also know barhoppers don't really care about music they haven't heard before (you're doing originals), so you've got to be not only better than lowest common denominator bands like ABravado's, you've got to be better by enough of a margin that barhoppers actually take notice and show up in larger numbers when you're playing. Good luck with that.
 
#68
I had this same problem with the last band I was in. Main issue is that if unless you play covers your not gonna get paid at a local bar gig, period. i know you said the market is bad for that there but for as long as i've been playing i have found that is just the way it is. Also if your bringing in 99% of the gate, just get on the mic and tell your friends to pack it up and leave cause the bar owner is a cheap bastard. If you have as much influence as you claim to have USE IT.

And finally if you do play mostly to get your original stuff out there, still play a lot of covers and just slip one or two originals into the set. Don't even say they're originals becasue people in bars tend to here that and tune out, if someone likes what they hear and ask about the song always have a cd ready, that way your not trying to hock cd's to people who don't want them, the covers entertain the average bar goer and if one or two people decide to buy your cd of originals that you have had a good night and you'll get paid. I know some people consider playing covers selling your soul but atleast your getting something in return that way.
 
#69
TheVoiceless said:
This is my point. Even a small guarantee brings legitimacy to a venue, and a lot of well deserved dignity to musicians.
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:confused: In this case, dignity is either shared among gigging bands or it doesn't exist.

If a band is willing to play for free, the shared dignity is no longer an option, but you still have you have 2.5 options left:

Stay home with your dignity.
Play for free, and call it "your social life" :D Unsuspecting people will think that maybe you could get paid if you wanted to.
Find a schtick that lures customers (this is the half option, as it isn't totally under your control) so that the owner will consider paying you. Doesn't have to be a musical schtick- remember, it's a bar.
 
#70
I hate to tell you, but if bands aren't getting paid then you definitely do not have a "thriving music scene". You have a bunch of weekend warriors and no professionals. If any of the bands are good enough, they'll start drawing real crowds. Then they can start demanding money and it will make sense for the bar owners to pay them. If a bar owner can let you walk and plug in any band off the street without any real loss, what bargaining power do you have?
 
#71
BrianVengeance said:
It sounds like your best bet for getting a little cash is to invest in some merch. Record a CD, hock it for a couple of bucks with t-shirts and stickers. Beer koozies / bottle openers could also work in a college town.

With a million bands in town, organization is going to be difficult, and like the other posters have said, the cost of drinks isn't the same as what you pay for them.
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+1 If you're good and stand out amongst the rest, people will buy your cd, t-shirt, stickers. That plus a tip jar on the side of the stage (where you can watch it) will get you some money. Every show I've been to where they had merch and were good, I bought a CD, sometimes a t-shirt. That's about $30 from me alone.
 
#72
Yup, got to sell some merch. Then try to land better gigs. Try to find venues that have national acts, and get on those bills. You'll have some experience from all the free shows you played, so you will sound polished, and you'll have a fan base. The big venue will want to know how many people you can bring. So keep building your fan base with the free shows. You can tell the bigger venue you want X amount of money, or a percentage of the door/bar. You may have to travel a little ways out of the college town to get those gigs though.

I wish you the best.
 
#74
The "chronic problem" IS NOT the venues -- it's the bands.

....


MARKETING
Chances are you have some marketing and graphic design pals. Put together a KILLER image and package... then market it


YOU TAKE THE RISK
YOU be the one who takes on risk (some have suggested finding an underperforming venue) then moving your crowd.


OPINION - the Band is the Problem
I find the biggest issues with original bands are "right" to be paid... when the issue is creating and managing a following.


OPINION - Originals are Too Much Work - I'm part of your problem.
As a rule, I won't do originals. Too much work -- when I'd rather focus on a show and getting paid.

That said -- I'm passionate about ONE guy I play with... he writes KILLER tunes... has a great voice.... and is a blessing to hang out with. For originals, I'd rather get 2 drink tickets to hang out with him than have the Ballz to do all the promotion.



Tim

PS - back in the stone age (when I was in college)........ We'd go to people throwing a party... and do the following

1-The band would staff cup sales --- we'd take $1 per cup
(if your band sucks and can't draw you get a whopping $20 for a house full of nerds)

For a venue, we'd do the following

2-Guarantee - We managed a fanbase --- then GUARANTEE a venue... example --- "Mr Bar Owner... we're going to bring in 200 people --- we want $400.. if there aren't 200 there - you owe us zero"

3-House Band for Off Nights.... Issue with most stupid college bands is they over estimate their value. Why not pick a Sunday-Tuesday and become a house band... you fill the place, then ask to be paid or moving to a new venue.
 
#75
onestring said:
Make your own gig.

If you're in a college town, I promise you there is a room/hall/VFW/church somewhere you can rent. Find out what it costs. Rent it. Promote the heck out of your own show, or have a business major do it for you as a project. Do it a couple of times.

You may lose your shirt, or you may make a few bucks. But you'll find out what you're worth in the context of being an original band in a small town, and you'll be in a much more realistic position to negotiate with the bar because you'll have the numbers.

(Or what Von said.)
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^^^^^^ PRUDENT ^^^^^^^
 
#76
book your own gigs! DIY or die ;)

- find a venue (function room etc)
- balance up realistic door numbers against rental hire/paying the sound guy. helps if you build a relationship with the owner... if you can find somewhere suitable for free, so much the better.
- find and book some local/touring bands YOU like, that you want to play with.
- split the proceeds (after costs) FAIRLY among the bands - touring bands and those who brought a crowd get extra.
- if you can figure in a case of beer and some sandwiches for the bands, so much the better.
- everyone pitches in with setup, door, kit share.
- promote the hell out of it (web, flyers, local radio, colleges)

congratulations, you just started a scene! keep it autonomous, realistic in expectation, and fair. you're putting money straight into bands' pockets (including yours) and everyone gets a good night playing with bands that match, stylistically.

EDIT posted this in a rush, just noticed a few other people have recommended it too :)
 
#78
I still say if you can get a decent crowd and get one or two clubs to let you charge the door you will make a few bucks and maybe get the other bands who see you doing so to get onboard..maybe? Since this is a cheap music town try a dollar at the door where you charge $1 for each person coming in that night. You then split that 50-50 with the bar. This way you get something...not allot and they made a little too. The bar cant say you kept people out with a high door charge cuz if they dont have an extra buck, they shouldn't be in there in the first place. Its a long shot but what do you have to lose?
 
#79
Tell'em your a cover band.
Play 1 cover tune.
Play the rest originals.

Make sure you bring at least 30-40 people and they will ask you back.
If you fail to bring said people, your power supply will some how disappear during your first original song.

That is all.
 

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