Original bands playing for free: a chronic problem

[prd004]

Wow, I wonder what has happened to the love of music?

If I made a list of the 10-15 best days of my life, I bet half of them would be the great gigs I've played. I remember my very first gig way better than I remember my very first lay! (Although my performance in each probably wasn't spectacular ). But that first gig was the watershed moment in my life.

I love playing, period. It's nice when it pays, but it's not essential. I would take a great free show over a mediocre paying gig 100 times out of 100. I know all the guys that are trying to make a living playing "Mustang Salley" and "Play That Funky Music" are going to flame me saying I'm taking their gigs, but I really couldn't care less. No offense.
FWIW, I have been payed to play bass on other peoples demo's/Ep's/albums. I've had my music played on the radio and I've been an on-air/in-studio guest. I've been in fairly sucessful working tribute bands, I've been a hired gun, and I've even been paid to practice! But all in all the pay was crap. Yes, you can earn a living doing it but most likely you're going to struggle to make ends meet, and for me in the end, it was not why I got into music.

I pretty much only play original music now, I do it because that is what I love doing, and money is rarely, if ever a factor.

 

[Kenner]

Make your own gig.

If you're in a college town, I promise you there is a room/hall/VFW/church somewhere you can rent. Find out what it costs. Rent it. Promote the heck out of your own show, or have a business major do it for you as a project. Do it a couple of times.

You may lose your shirt, or you may make a few bucks. But you'll find out what you're worth in the context of being an original band in a small town, and you'll be in a much more realistic position to negotiate with the bar because you'll have the numbers.

(Or what Von said.)

Couldn't agree more with this...

Back in the day, one of my original bands (Fear Itself) used to rent a hall in NE Mpls. Everyone got carded, we hired off duty cops and a couple WWF wrestlers (The Stormtroopers) to keep peeps kind of behaved.

We'd get 10 kegs and 2 other bands to draw a good crowd and just tear the roof off of the joint. Usual take at the door was around 4 grand. Expenses were....

175 for the hall
150 for cleanup
600 for beer
300 for security (4 dudes at 75 each)
500 for production

Each band went home with 750...WIN!

But...biggest thing! We worked really hard to network, find the better drawing bands (that also worked hard at networking), and deliver on a killer show and production. And it took a couple times to make it stick. This was all in 1993-1995....long before facebook and myspace. We had to bust nuts to be "bigger"....

 

[Corevalay]

It's very sad that it is like this. I'm from NJ where the local original scene is really dying out. Covers have long taken over (even they are hurting). What I never could understand was why original bands were never paid or paid very poorly. Whenever we would play with a few bands on the bill the places would be packed. The club would do extremely well yet the bands would make like $100. Then, you have coverbands who most of the time don't really draw well but get a flat rate around $1000. It's really a shame that original bands are taken advantage of. All the hard work and determination is used against them because they just want to play.

 

[scottbass]

What I never could understand was why original bands were never paid or paid very poorly. Whenever we would play with a few bands on the bill the places would be packed. The club would do extremely well yet the bands would make like $100. Then, you have coverbands who most of the time don't really draw well but get a flat rate around $1000. It's really a shame that original bands are taken advantage of. All the hard work and determination is used against them because they just want to play.

I hear ya and definitely sympathize...but it's really a matter of the originals bands doing it to themselves, not the club owners keepin' you down.

As articulated in many previous posts, most areas have many originals bands who will play for free or a percentage of the door or will "sell tickets" (aka pay to play). That fact coupled with the fact that MOST (not all) originals bands have small to nonexistant followings results in the reality that most club owners do not have to pay much - or anything - to get originals bands to show up and play.

Most half-decent (or better) cover bands have demonstrated that not only do they bring customers to bars, but they also keep customers in bars, sell mopre drinks and food, etc. Because of this the bars have to compete with each other to book the best cover bands, which allows those cover bands to charge more for gigs. And it all trickles down.

And, of course, the whole live music scene is just a fraction of what it was in the "old days", for both cover bands and originals bands. It's just simple cause and effect that (a) cover bands typically demonstrate more earning potential for the clubs, and (b) there is typically an oversupply of originals bands who will pay for free (or very little) and therefore allow the clubs to pay nothing (or very little) for their services.

 

[bassguitar808]

Couldn't agree more with this...

Back in the day, one of my original bands (Fear Itself) used to rent a hall in NE Mpls. Everyone got carded, we hired off duty cops and a couple WWF wrestlers (The Stormtroopers) to keep peeps kind of behaved.

We'd get 10 kegs and 2 other bands to draw a good crowd and just tear the roof off of the joint. Usual take at the door was around 4 grand. Expenses were....

175 for the hall
150 for cleanup
600 for beer
300 for security (4 dudes at 75 each)
500 for production

Each band went home with 750...WIN!

But...biggest thing! We worked really hard to network, find the better drawing bands (that also worked hard at networking), and deliver on a killer show and production. And it took a couple times to make it stick. This was all in 1993-1995....long before facebook and myspace. We had to bust nuts to be "bigger"....

This is exactly the right idea
Be you're own promoter
You will risk more, but you can also make more, much more
you will also be in charge of the lineup
if it's your first event try partnering with a local community group for a "benefit"
make sure someone you trust runs the door, gf / spouse

ignore all the cover band advice, if you're original, than be original
also consider are your songs really that good?
do some critical listening to your bands rehearsal tapes
fix problem areas, know the material backwards and forwards
change songs if you have to, to make them better

write more
a friends band is being courted by an indie label with good distro
they have 20 songs written, the label wants to hear 50 from them
10 of which will make the album
write more

 

[Bassdirty]

It's really a shame that original bands are taken advantage of. All the hard work and determination is used against them because they just want to play.

If bands play what people want to hear, they will do good.Period.

Covers AND originals.

If you put together a coverband of sucky b side crap, it will most likey not pay well...so Its not just coverband vs. original.

Point is, if original bands make music people want to hear, they will most likley be successful.Just too many sucky original bands ruined it.

JMO...?..

 

[bassbully]

If bands play what people want to hear, they will do good.Period.

Covers AND originals.

If you put together a coverband of sucky b side crap, it will most likey not pay well...so Its not just coverband vs. original.

Point is, if original bands make music people want to hear, they will most likley be successful.Just too many sucky original bands ruined it.

JMO...?..

In my experience too many sucky cover bands have done the same thing. Face it bars,clubs dont need us (bands, musicians) to survive. In the 70's and 80's I went to clubs were bands played and they did. The places were wall to wall packed and bands who played 5-6 nights a week. Today its not so. A dude behind the bar with a laptop can keep them dancing or one of them crappy Karaoke machines can bring them in with less hassles to the bar and allot of time bring in more people.
Sometimes you have to look at things for what they are, deal with it, try to fix it, or walk away.

 

[posijon]

book your own gigs! DIY or die

- find a venue (function room etc)
- balance up realistic door numbers against rental hire/paying the sound guy. helps if you build a relationship with the owner... if you can find somewhere suitable for free, so much the better.
- find and book some local/touring bands YOU like, that you want to play with.
- split the proceeds (after costs) FAIRLY among the bands - touring bands and those who brought a crowd get extra.
- if you can figure in a case of beer and some sandwiches for the bands, so much the better.
- everyone pitches in with setup, door, kit share.
- promote the hell out of it (web, flyers, local radio, colleges)

congratulations, you just started a scene! keep it autonomous, realistic in expectation, and fair. you're putting money straight into bands' pockets (including yours) and everyone gets a good night playing with bands that match, stylistically.

EDIT posted this in a rush, just noticed a few other people have recommended it too

This is the best idea. Depending on your genre, you can look into renting the local uu church's fellowship room. If you have your own pa, house shows will make good money too. Take donations and don't be afraid to ask for them. I've made upwards of 50 bucks for touring punk bands from donations alone.

 

[behemecoytl]

Wow, I wonder what has happened to the love of music?

Yes, you can earn a living doing it but most likely you're going to struggle to make ends meet, and for me in the end, it was not why I got into music.

I pretty much only play original music now, I do it because that is what I love doing, and money is rarely, if ever a factor.

once again, I'm not even talking about making a living. why does expecting gas money from a venue seem greedy to some people?

and why do these people always stress that they do it for The Love? Are you saying you love music more than people who want to cover Some of their costs so they can afford to keep playing? it's a bit presumptious...

 

[bassguitar808]

In my experience too many sucky cover bands have done the same thing. Face it bars,clubs dont need us (bands, musicians) to survive. In the 70's and 80's I went to clubs were bands played and they did. The places were wall to wall packed and bands who played 5-6 nights a week. Today its not so. A dude behind the bar with a laptop can keep them dancing or one of them crappy Karaoke machines can bring them in with less hassles to the bar and allot of time bring in more people.
Sometimes you have to look at things for what they are, deal with it, try to fix it, or walk away.

I've also been DJ'n for the past 20 years and crappy laptop djs playing for free is also a problem in my DJ scene too

no matter what we're playing its got to be good
promoted well
with enough hooks to get people to come back

 

[RBrownBass]

once again, I'm not even talking about making a living. why does expecting gas money from a venue seem greedy to some people?

and why do these people always stress that they do it for The Love? Are you saying you love music more than people who want to cover Some of their costs so they can afford to keep playing? it's a bit presumptious...

There are some posts that don't merit a response. You responded to one of them, IMO.

 

[fingerbun]

There are some posts that don't merit a response. You responded to one of them, IMO.

Actually I think he responded to one of the wisest posts in the thread. The core message he quoted was "Remember why you are doing this". Very good advice.

You want to make art? Make art. Don't get distracted by money.

You want to make money? Run it like a business. Have a business plan and a realistic budget. There are bands out there making money. What are they doing that you are not, and how can you do it? How do you break into venues that pay better?

But remember, a business needs a product that sells. You have to choose the songs that put bums on seats, not necessarily what you want to play. Like a carpenter who enjoys doing fine inlay work and intricate carving, but instead makes kitchen cabinets because that's what people will pay for.

The world doesn't owe you a living, and many great artists who died penniless.

 

[fingerbun]

once again, I'm not even talking about making a living. why does expecting gas money from a venue seem greedy to some people?

and why do these people always stress that they do it for The Love? Are you saying you love music more than people who want to cover Some of their costs so they can afford to keep playing? it's a bit presumptious...

I don't think you're greedy. But I don't think the bar owes you gas money either.

If you have talent you can do much better than gas money. Your heroes all started where you are now.

Edit : your love point. I play music for the love of it nowadays but I make a point of choosing the gigs I want and THEN asking about the money, so the money doesn't become a distraction. Usually the bands I am in get paid, unless I am helping out a friend at an open mic night or something.

When I was full time I became a bit mercenary, and ended up making decisions on the basis of what they paid, not what I played. I lost sight of why I got into music. I lost the love.

Getting gas money if you can. Great. Stopping playing even though you want it because they won't pay gas money....questionable decision. Playing because they will pay not much more than gas money, even though you don't enjoy what you are playing...probably clinically insane, but where many fulltimers end up.

 

[beggar98]

I guarantee that if the next time you play you draw 150-175 people to a bar that is happy with a crowd of 30-40, you could negotiate a pretty nice payday for your next gig.

 

[grisezd]

I didn't wade through to the end so this has probably been suggested. Two words. "Frat Gigs".

Play the bars for a cut of the door (I think in my "prime" in Athens Ga I usually raked in maybe $80 for the band to split), get the frat boys on your team, and play their parties. There's money in frats, and if they love you they'll pay you. And their drunk girlfriends are all over the place!

That said, nobody pays a poet to read until he's published a book. Same with painters, dancers, any other artist.

Today it's a lot easier to pick up a few dollars at a gig, I'd imagine, doing merch. Nobody wanted a cassette copy of our songs, especially if recorded at home on the 4 track cassette deck. Now a little zip and zap with the computer and you've got something to sell for $5.

 

[Turock]

I disagree with your basic premise...it seems like you feel that other musicians should charge a fee that the market will not bare so that you would get paid more than the market will bare.

You do know what bare means, right?

 

[MrLenny1]

A local bar here caters to the college crowd & original bands. They get 2-3 bands some nights and maybe 2 free drinks,domestic beer only. When you bitch at the owner he says, but you guys like to play.This has not changed in many years.
If you play covers a hot spot in town pays $300. If you stink, $300, if you're really good, $300. 9 pc. band, $300, you get the idea.

 

[mambo4]

You want to make money? Run it like a business. Have a business plan and a realistic budget. There are bands out there making money. What are they doing that you are not, and how can you do it? How do you break into venues that pay better?

+ a bunch to this.
addressing the above questions is a much more practical expenditure of your mental energy than complaining, blaming, or wishing things were otherwise.

there are original bands that are NOT nationally or globally famed, who are making a decent living. It is possible.
But it takes far more than simply showing up and playing a local bar that deigns to give you a slot.

Location/local scene is also a big factor. "gas money" is in a gap between playing for free and having a draw worth more to the venue .
In some regions, like a college town with students willing to play for free, this gap isn't filled and so you get no gas money unless you have the big draw.
Other regions will have more "in between" tiers where you can't make living but you can make cab fare/gas money.

 

[fingerbun]

Hey Mambo4, I clicked on your link and liked what I saw. Went to download the EP and it's free provided I join the mailing list...what a bargain!

Want to comment on the business model behind that? Probably relevant to the thread. I assume you view it as advertising or something?

 

[prd004]

once again, I'm not even talking about making a living. why does expecting gas money from a venue seem greedy to some people?

and why do these people always stress that they do it for The Love? Are you saying you love music more than people who want to cover Some of their costs so they can afford to keep playing? it's a bit presumptious...

I don't think I'm being presumtious at all, I'm speaking from my point of view.

However, if I was to presume:

If I would be willing to do a gig for free and you would only be willing to do it for gas money then yes, I assume I love playing more than you! Perhaps I assume wrong, but the facts would imply that I'm right. Also I never said anything about greed, that was your word. I never even implied it. I don't begrudge anybody for wanting gig money.

FWIW, I just negotiated a deal and signed the contract on monday for my all original band to play a big summer festival in August. I got $500 for the band and an additional $75 for printing flyers and promotional material. But gigs like this are few and far between. I also just played a 100% free gig on Wendesday and had an absolute blast, I'd do it again in a heartbeat!