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Poly vs. Nitro vs. something better?

fretlessman71

fretlessman71

Still beats havin' a job
Supporting Member
Aug 8, 2005
4,388
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FoCo, NoCo
www.michaelolsononline.com
#1
I don't want to rehash what's already been said, and there's too much said here for a search to be worth much...

Looking for threads that discuss the merits of various finishes on a bass. I have a natural bass with a thick poly finish that sounds a little "tight", and want to know what my options might be... thanks for the links in advance.
 
#3
I prefer poly. It can be applied in as thin of a coat as a nitro finish, and it is much more durable than nitro. I also don't believe in the whole thing about nitro letting the wood breathe.
 
#9
So could you take an already finished instrument - in what's more than likely heavy poly ('77 japanese solidbody) - and THIN the finish somehow? Or are you starting over from scratch?
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Theoretically a thick poly finish just needs to become a thin poly finish. In practice, sanding part of the thickness off is not possible, because sanding is imprecise and the difference between thick, thin and sanded through would be uncontrollable. Start over.
I've put Highway 1 guts in my MIM J bass and it didn't sound the same as my Highway 1 J bass.
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Having painted many nitro finishes and poly finishes, I have never seen an appreciable sound difference between nitro and poly of similar thickness. There are many other factors with far more influence over sound - neck thickness, woods, strings, set up...

Finish materials have grown a mystique they don't really deserve. I think part of the momentum for the nitro "must" be better logic comes from the fact that older (translated: "better") basses were nitro finished. Therefore, since "older" = "better" (except when it doesn't), "nitro" must also be "better".

Pseudo-technical explanations for this abound: As to nitro "breathing" better than poly - both are airtight. Basses don't breath. As to nitro somehow allowing wood to vibrate more freely than poly - at the thickness we are talking about, the relative stiffness/suppleness of each material has no perceptible difference. Even body resonance were a huge factor, there are many other factors that would wield a bigger influence than finish.

Guitar makers, like car makers before them (who also used nitro paints) mostly switched to poly or acrylic as soon as it became practical, mainly for manufacturing ease and durability (I guess they didn't account for so many musicians wanting instruments to look like they'd been dragged around the Mississippi delta for 50 years by Blind Melon Smith).
 
#10
bassman10096 said:
...Having painted many nitro finishes and poly finishes, I have never seen an appreciable sound difference between nitro and poly of similar thickness. There are many other factors with far more influence over sound - neck thickness, woods, strings, set up...

Finish materials have grown a mystique they don't really deserve. I think part of the momentum for the nitro "must" be better logic comes from the fact that older (translated: "better") basses were nitro finished. Therefore, since "older" = "better" (except when it doesn't), "nitro" must also be "better"...
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While I haven't painted many nitro and poly finishes, I have painted a few, but more importantly, I've stripped a few poly and nitro finished bass bodies and there is a big difference between the thickness of a nitro finish and a poly finish. While I've never measured them, the poly finishes I've stripped have been much, much thicker than the nitro finishes. The poly has always been been applied over a very thick (unfinished) layer of sealer. I used a chemical strip for the nitro and heat and a scraper blade for the poly so I don't know if the nitro finishes had sealer under them since the stripper took everything off to the wood and the heat and scrape method on the poly just separated the poly from the sealer.

The Highway 1 was advertised by Fender as having a "thin nitro finish" and that is no lie, it is super thin, as thin a finish as I've ever seen on a finished bass. The poly alone on the last mexican Fender I stripped was at least twice as thick as a business card, and that was all sitting on top of a layer of sealer at least as thick as the poly top layer.

The point of all this rambling is the thickness of the poly finishes I've stripped have been many, many times thicker than any nitro finish I've ever taken off a bass body.
 
#11
C.Linton said:
I just happen to be one that believes the finish has little to no effect on the sound. I prefer poly mostly because It doesn't wear as easily as nitro. I like my instruments to look as new as possible as long as possible.
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I agree about finish being irrelevant to the sound. However, there is another option - acrylic lacquer. Most automobile color-match and touch up spray paint is acrylic lacquer. It's very much like nitro but comes in every Dupli-Color can. You can find all the undercoats, color and clear coats you want in acrylic lacquer. Dries fast.

You can also buy acrylic lacquer from Stew-Mac and spray it yourself if you wish. An auto detail gun works fine. You can also use it in airbrushes.

If you want the bass to show wear, acrylic lacquer will do so just like nitro. If not, just take care of it and you've have a lovely lacquer finish.

This bass is all acrylic lacquer:

P-Jbassfull.jpg
 
#12
I've stripped a few poly and nitro finished bass bodies and there is a big difference between the thickness of a nitro finish and a poly finish.
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Good point. But a thick nitro finish will tend to have more effect than a thin poly. Better poly finishes aren't like bowling ball thickness.
 
#13
bigmoosepi said:
Type of finish, possibly not. Thickness of finish? Absolutely.

nitro and poly of equal thickness I think would sound the same.

Problem with cheap guitars is they just cake that clear coat all over it. Goodbye resonance.
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The difference between a thick poly finish and a thin poly or nitro finish is about the thickness of a human hair. The sonic difference between the two would be minimal if any at all.

By your theory, a thick finish should actually sound better. An extremely resonant body would absorb string vibrations killing tone and sustain. Since this doesn't seem to ever be the case, I find the whole theory to be a bunch of hog wash.
 
#15
fretlessman71 said:
I've heard the opposite - would you mind elaborating?
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The whole thing about wood breathing is absolutely ridiculous. The theory is that moisture would be able to continue to escape from the wood. If this were true then so would the opposite, and the wood would continuously draw in moisture if you lived in a humid environment, making it extremely unstable and prone to twisting, warping and checking.

If nitro lets wood breathe, and poly doesn't then how come a poly neck would ever need to be adjusted. It should be completely unaffected by weather changes. Since poly, and nitro finished necks are both equally effected by weather changes, it is hard for me to believe that one finish breathes and one doesn't.
 
#18
Hopkins said:
The difference between a thick poly finish and a thin poly or nitro finish is about the thickness of a human hair. The sonic difference between the two would be minimal if any at all.

By your theory, a thick finish should actually sound better. An extremely resonant body would absorb string vibrations killing tone and sustain. Since this doesn't seem to ever be the case, I find the whole theory to be a bunch of hog wash.
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Great point I agree with you and people are going to swear to just the opposite I wonder if a Badass bridge sounds better with a poly or nitro finish?
 

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