Post Count?

[MatticusMania]

I think for every meaningful post we make in OT we should go add a '+1' in some other thread, just to keep things accurate.*



*edit: post made in jest, not an actual suggestion. I'm not that subversive.

 

[Eric Perry]

A +1 in the "Bassists with Beards" (you know, a music related thread, since this is a "music site") thread to really hammer the point home!

 

[geeza]

I think for every meaningful post we make in OT we should go add a '+1' in some other thread, just to keep things accurate.

+1 [/irony]

 

[mike_v_s]

I think for every meaningful post we make in OT we should go add a '+1' in some other thread, just to keep things accurate.

You don't want to go clutering the forums with useless garbage......so skip the meaningful post in OT and just stick with the +1.

Mike

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

So the sense of community fostered by this online, uh, community has no value to the site as a whole? I still say this is a matter of perception. Your contention is that it is a music site. I say it is a musicians site.

Off Topic will foster a sense of community in a non-musical aspect. You will find the same sense of community in the other forums. You get to know the non-music side of fellow musicians here, which is great. But even if this is a musician's site rather than a music site, then the non-musician side isn't adding anything to the compendium of information from the other forums.

I think a few peple have already stated that would affect their supporting status.

That would be too bad.

In all fairness, I think the "why" and "why not" that have been covered by a number of people here.

Yeah, but not all of them agree with me yet, so they need to keep rethinking until they do

To me it's like a big study group sitting in a circle. You're getting extra points from the teacher for doing it. Then there's a couple guys who came to the group but then decided to sit in the back of the room and talk to each other. Even though not everyone in the circle is contributing a lot, at least they're giving it a shot. It's fine that the other guys are in the back of the room, but should they really be getting upset if the teacher decides to not give them extra credit because they weren't part of the group?

No one will have their posts counted in Off Topic. That's fair for everyone. No one's being forced to come here and post, and no one's losing anything by having their posts not counted from here. No one's being forced NOT to post in the music forums either. If it's such a big deal to some that their posts should count, then they should post them in a place where they WILL count.

 

[Marlat]

Actually a simple "win / win"* solution is fairly obvious. Just change the code so that any post with say less than 15 characters is not counted in the post count. The result is that posting things like "great bass" "+1" "affirmative" etc don't get counted and only "useful" content does. No more having to worry whether the useful post was made in OT or the Lobby vs the bassists with beards thread or "Song Uno".

In a bitter twist of irony, the "Jewish Bassists Club" which resides in the Lobby seems to have been reshaped into a music related thread regarding for bassists to discuss jewish music, but since its in the Lobby those seemingly relevant posts don't count whilst the much more integral "Bassists with Beards Club" powers along. Oh well. If nothing else, this whole situation is entertaining!

*any lawyer will tell you there is no such thing as win/win. Someone always loses.

 

[DaveDeVille]

I think for every meaningful post we make in OT
we should go add a '+1' in some other thread, just to keep things accurate.

i LOL'd ...

seriously , i don't understand OT postings not counting towards an individuals post count .
some of the threads started in the other forums ...
which bass is best ?
how many strings do i need ?
which amp i should buy ?
threads such as these are all over TalkBass , and seem to be more about a newbie not reading the stickies ,
and not understanding the SEARCH function ...

as a supporting member ,
i'd like to cast my imaginary vote to re-instate OT post counts ...

 

[5StringBlues]

+1 [/irony]

Whatchoo got against broccoli?


Told you it wasn't over..............

 

[geeza]

It's fine that the other guys are in the back of the room, but should they really be getting upset if the teacher decides to not give them extra credit because they weren't part of the group?

That's fine, as long as the teacher knows there may be spitballs flying towards their head.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Actually a simple "win / win"* solution is fairly obvious. Just change the code so that any post with say less than 15 characters is not counted in the post count. The result is that posting things like "great bass" "+1" "affirmative" etc don't get counted and only "useful" content does. No more having to worry whether the useful post was made in OT or the Lobby vs the bassists with beards thread or "Song Uno".

That would be a good solution. Honestly though, I think some of the folks would even look for a problem with that or any other suggestion until OT posts were counted again. So many man cards are being revoked due to this thread. So, so many....

In a bitter twist of irony, the "Jewish Bassists Club" which resides in the Lobby seems to have been reshaped into a music related thread regarding for bassists to discuss jewish music, but since its in the Lobby those seemingly relevant posts don't count whilst the much more integral "Bassists with Beards Club" powers along. Oh well. If nothing else, this whole situation is entertaining!

*any lawyer will tell you there is no such thing as win/win. Someone always loses.

That should be back in Bassists soon enough.

 

[Marlat]

That would be a good solution. Honestly though, I think some of the folks would even look for a problem with that or any other suggestion until OT posts were counted again. So many man cards are being revoked due to this thread. So, so many....

I think that's being unfair. The issue that people seem to have with the decision is fairly clearly stemming from how the decision was presented rather than the decision itself. I think its disengenous to ignore that aspect of it in any response / rebuttal to the issue seeing as its evident in almost every serious post on the issue.

I don't really care either way as I have a shed-load of posts and don't post in OT that much anymore anyway, but I can see why people have taken issue with the rationale and think its legitimate criticism. I also would be highly suprised if the desired effect of the decision actually occurs in practice unless, of course, the desired effect isn't as stated in this thread (which I have no reason to believe otherwise). As many have pointed out. There is as much "valueless" posts in other forums as there are in OT unless, by default, all posts in OT are valueless.

That should be back in Bassists soon enough.

Regardless, one must surely appreciate the irony of that whole situation!

 

[RWP]

Mike, just for grins you should add a poll to this thread to see how the masses feel about this. Not that it really matters....

 

[MatticusMania]

So many man cards are being revoked due to this thread. So, so many....

You have no idea how man cards work. Standing up for what you believe in is certainly a manly action.

 

[mike_v_s]

Off Topic will foster a sense of community in a non-musical aspect. You will find the same sense of community in the other forums. You get to know the non-music side of fellow musicians here, which is great. But even if this is a musician's site rather than a music site, then the non-musician side isn't adding anything to the compendium of information from the other forums.

That's where I respectfully disagree. The "sense of community" isn't just restrained or confined to the OT section. In college courses, the discussions we had before or after class definitely made the in-class discussions more personable and went a long way to understand a person's nuances and mannerisms. When you get to know people better, it helps in all aspects of conversation, regardless of the topic (or medium).

I don't see how OT could be called the "non-musician" side when it is populated by musicians.

That would be too bad.

I agree, but it is what it is.

Yeah, but not all of them agree with me yet, so they need to keep rethinking until they do

To me it's like a big study group sitting in a circle. You're getting extra points from the teacher for doing it. Then there's a couple guys who came to the group but then decided to sit in the back of the room and talk to each other. Even though not everyone in the circle is contributing a lot, at least they're giving it a shot. It's fine that the other guys are in the back of the room, but should they really be getting upset if the teacher decides to not give them extra credit because they weren't part of the group?

But you're advocating giving people "extra credit" just for showing up, regardless of quality of input, after labeling the other conversation inherently of lower quality.

No one will have their posts counted in Off Topic. That's fair for everyone. No one's being forced to come here and post, and no one's losing anything by having their posts not counted from here. No one's being forced NOT to post in the music forums either. If it's such a big deal to some that their posts should count, then they should post them in a place where they WILL count.

I think that would clutter the forums with garbage, if you don't mind me saying so., and is exactly why I don't drop my two cents in every thread I read in Basses, Strings, Set-Up, etc.

Mike

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

You have no idea how man cards work. Standing up for what you believe in is certainly a manly action.

Shedding crocodile tears because your posts won't count on an internet forum is not

 

[mike_v_s]

I think that's being unfair. The issue that people seem to have with the decision is fairly clearly stemming from how the decision was presented rather than the decision itself. I think its disengenous to ignore that aspect of it in any response / rebuttal to the issue seeing as its evident in almost every serious post on the issue.

I agree with this ^

(the comment above is 15 characters)

Mike

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

That's where I respectfully disagree. The "sense of community" isn't just restrained or confined to the OT section. In college courses, the discussions we had before or after class definitely made the in-class discussions more personable and went a long way to understand a person's nuances and mannerisms. When you get to know people better, it helps in all aspects of conversation, regardless of the topic (or medium).

I don't see how OT could be called the "non-musician" side when it is populated by musicians.



But you're advocating giving people "extra credit" just for showing up, regardless of quality of input, after labeling the other conversation inherently of lower quality.

I think that would clutter the forums with garbage, if you don't mind me saying so., and is exactly why I don't drop my two cents in every thread I read in Basses, Strings, Set-Up, etc.

Mike

Because you can't talk about music in here? If you have something that actually relates to the discussion of your fellow musicians and how they think, how they approach music, etc., then it really belongs in the other forums- not OT. You're actually proving my point though- you're saying that you don't want to clutter the other forums up with garbage that wouldn't add to the threads. What's the point of getting the sense of community if it doesn't lead you to actively engage in the community where it counts- the music forums? What use is it to get to know people better to better the conversation if you never enter the conversation? It's like having that great conversation before class, and then when it's time for class to begin- you don't even go into the classroom. If there's something worth talking about that will add to the musical discussions, then put them in the music forums where they belong.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

You guys are going a bit crazy with this +1 business. You guys might not leave Off Topic enough to notice (nyuck nyuck nyuck), but it's frowned upon when someone posts just those kinds of posts. Off Topic posts are simply not music-related, and this is a music site. As a music site, I'm not sure how anyone would argue that posts having nothing to do with music add value to the site as a whole. They may add to your feeling of community, but as far as adding to musical value? No. And really, who's being treated unfairly? This rule applies to everyone on TB. If you spend most of your time in Off Topic, then that's your choice- you're more than welcome to spend in the other forums.

If, when you joined TB, there was a note in the disclaimer stating that since this is a music forum, any posts made in the Off Topic section would not count towards your post count total, would you seriously have considered not joining?

This seems to be an issue of people who spend most or all of their time in Off Topic being upset that are being considered less than an equal part of the TalkBass community. If you are one of those folks though and want to be considered an equal part of TalkBass, then you should probably reconsider why you're spending so much time in the Off Topic section.

The policy hasn't changed my personal posting habits one bit. In fact, I think since this policy was implemented, I might have made only a couple of posts outside of OT. You don't think that people that post regularly in OT have a legitimate gripe here? Yes this is a music site, yes, I understand your position on this, and yes I understand that the focus of the site is dedicated to bass and music. This is why there are umpteen odd forum based upon bass and it's related music subtopics, and only one Off Topic forum. I get that. What I resent is that the policy writes off everything that is posted in OT, and it implies that it holds no value when compared to the posts that tick the post count in the other forums.

I really don't care if there is a post count or not, what bothers me is that the distinction is being made as to what counts as a post count and what doesn't. This distinction implies that Off Topic and all its posts are not on the same social hierarchy as the posts from the other forums. This distinction appears to be mean spirited against the people who create the posts and threads in Off Topic, who are ALSO posters in the other areas of the site. Let's face it, if it was just computer generated threads and posts interacting with just computer generated threads and posts as some kind of weird inanimate script or something, then this distinction wouldn't make a difference, but the fact remains that people are interacting with people within these threads and posts. So the post distinction is easily transferred as a policy against a specific population of TB'rs - those that primarily hang out in OT.

There have been plenty of other people in this thread that have pointed out the value that post counts may or may not have. Some have argued that post counts hold value because it shows a commitment to the site. Others have pointed out that it makes them more comfortable when working with TB'rs in the classified section. Others, myself included, feel that instead of creating this schism between TB'rs, that post counts should be eliminated all together because they don't feel what little value post counts do have is worth the ill will that is created by this policy. Obviously, from your remarks hinting that people that hang out in OT need to reevaluate themselves and the time spent in OT, you don't feel the same way. In fact, I would venture to say that I detect a sense of superiority in your tone (I could be wrong, this is the interweb afterall - subtlety is sometimes lost ), but it's possible I would not have detected this slight air of superiority in your post if this postcount distinction was never implemented in the first place. You see what I did there?

Which brings me to OT itself. If you don't consider the posts of OT to be of equal value to posts made in other forums, then why have OT? Again, the value of OT is different to different TB'rs, but obviously you, being the powers that be, do find some value in OT, otherwise it would not still be here. Whether that value be traffic generated ad revenue, or as others like myself have pointed out that this is the place where bass players form friendships and discuss things outside of bass and music (but still from the general perspective as bassplayers) , it's different things for different people. Personally, I find more value learning about how someone was almost ripped off by his local UPS, than arguing about what makes a Jazz bass a Jazz bass. I wouldn't care if I ONLY hung out in OT, but I do also post in other areas of this site. My approach in these areas, is a lot different than my approach in OT. I'm generally seeking information, or providing information to others. Now, because everyone knows me as an OT regular that needs to reevaluate my time spent in OT, my experience in other parts of the site could be compromised by snide remarks about me and my lowly associates here in the dark seedy side of OT. This may or may not happen, but now that this post count policy is in place there is not only potential, but an sudden awareness looking for it.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I certainly don't have a sense of superiority about it- I have over 15k posts at TB, so I'm sure at least 3,000 of them are in Off Topic if not more. My Off Topic post count is probably higher than the total post count of a lot of the Off Topic regulars. Yet I've in the past said that I thought that Off Topic posts should not be counted towards the total post count (and I mean mentioned it prior to this thread). It's really simple to me- the topic of this forum is bass and music, gear, and musicians related to it. This forum is for things that aren't on topic. This forum is for things completely unrelated to the topic of the forum. They simply DON'T count as much as posts in the forums that ARE on topic in my mind. They aren't adding to the whole point of the forum. That includes my however-many thousands of posts in here. I wouldn't mind at all if my posts here didn't count both currently AND retroactively. This forum, when it comes down to it, doesn't need to be here and isn't integral to the actual point of this site, and, while it would be a little different, the site would go strongly on without it. It is here basically as a place to put all of the off-topic tangentals that would otherwise happen in the music forums (this happens a lot in other forums that don't have a specific off-topic area- the regular threads get cluttered up with off-topic stuff). I like OT and think it's important in many aspects. It's not important in a musical aspect though, and being that the point of the site is music-related things, I don't see them as counting at the same level.

 

[mike_v_s]

Because you can't talk about music in here? If you have something that actually relates to the discussion of your fellow musicians and how they think, how they approach music, etc., then it really belongs in the other forums- not OT.

I'm not sure where this came from.

You're actually proving my point though- you're saying that you don't want to clutter the other forums up with garbage that wouldn't add to the threads. What's the point of getting the sense of community if it doesn't lead you to actively engage in the community where it counts- the music forums? What use is it to get to know people better to better the conversation if you never enter the conversation?

I DO enter the conversation. What I don't do is "dump" in the forums. Posting just to post. It's not my thing and not what I would consider engaging but, again, I think we're hitting a difference in perception.

Mike