Pull ALL the watts

[Russell L]

>>>Even though its nice to "have the extra headroom", what do you gain by running your amp at 1/4 volume vs. me running mine at 3/4 volume?<<<

I'd like to know that, too.

 

[Russell L]

Ok, ya'll, so I'm thinking of getting another 8 ohm 115 cab just like the one I already have so I can run two 115s at 4 ohms (both rated at 400w RMS handling). For a separate head, is there any reason to NOT step up to the Markbass Little Mark 800 with its 500/800 watts from the Little Mark II with its 300/500 watts? What will I gain if I do?

 

[BrianVengeance]

>>>Even though its nice to "have the extra headroom", what do you gain by running your amp at 1/4 volume vs. me running mine at 3/4 volume?<<<

I'd like to know that, too.

As far as I know, if your amp is putting out 300W at 3/4 and mine is putting out 300W at 1/4, then both are putting out 300W... which has nothing to do with headroom.

All things being equal, and assuming linearity between power delivery and the knob, going from 1/4 to 2/4 would double your power, thus adding 3dB. Going from 2/4 to 4/4 would again double your power, adding an additional 3dB... allowing for potentially 6dB more sound pressure.

Going from 3/4 to 4/4 would not allow for this much additional potential output.

I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I will certainly defer to those more knowledgeable if there is something flawed here...

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I agree, and ashamedly was one of those people who asked. But to the OP(as well as others), would it not make more sense to be mad at the manufacturers instead of the users/players?

Absolutely. Who first picks up a bass knowing anything about how gear works? How many manufacturers devote a single webpage or catalog page to educating their customers in how gear works? There are a few manufacturer forums, but none I know of get down to the real deal, they're just advertising tools. The only places that go into any real detail on how their gear functions are sellers of snake-oil, like expensive cables and power conditioners, and most of what they claim is false. It remains to sources like this one to set the consumer straight. Too bad so few newbies here, and a good many not so new, understand the concept of reading the FAQs and searching prior threads that answer at least 50% of the questions posed every day.

 

[VS]

Good post Bill. Not to get off-topic, but I know that there is a lot of controversy in cable quality and marketing thereof. I have used a Monster Performer 500 bass cable for over 8 years without a problem. It was $42. It's been worth every penny so far. -Luke

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Good post Bill. Not to get off-topic, but I know that there is a lot of controversy in cable quality and marketing thereof. I have used a Monster Performer 500 bass cable for over 8 years without a problem. It was $42. It's been worth every penny so far. -Luke

Not having a problem isn't an indicator of not having paid too much. The Performer 500 has such high capacitance that it kills the high end; IMO a reputable manufacturer would deem it defective and not sell it at all.
As to these claims:
1. Ordinary instrument cables can robyour bass of its fundamental low-endpunch
False. The worst cable made won't affect the low end whatsoever.
2. Dualheavy-gauge bass conductorsand patented multiple-gauge wirenetworks deliver extended low-endfrequency response and widedynamic range.
No more so than any other cable.
3. Patented MicroFiber®dielectric provides quick transientsand full harmonics.
False. Harmonics are what's lost with high capacitance cables. A defective dielectric layer is what causes high capacitance.

For the real dope read this:
Do Coat Hangers Sound As Good Monster Cables? - The Consumerist

Where speaker cables are concerned:
Speaker Wire

 

[Lowbrow]

I'll say it again: 30+ years gigging in NYC in clubs ranging from basements up to the Palladium and never used/needed a head more powerful than a GK 400RB. True, not much need to fill an arena, so I guess I never felt the loss of a 1000 watt rig in that regard if anyone chooses to make that observation.

 

[VS]

Not having a problem isn't an indicator of not having paid too much. The Performer 500 has such high capacitance that it kills the high end; IMO a reputable manufacturer would deem it defective and not sell it at all.
As to these claims:
1. Ordinary instrument cables can robyour bass of its fundamental low-endpunch
False. The worst cable made won't affect the low end whatsoever.
2. Dualheavy-gauge bass conductorsand patented multiple-gauge wirenetworks deliver extended low-endfrequency response and widedynamic range.
No more so than any other cable.
3. Patented MicroFiber®dielectric provides quick transientsand full harmonics.
False. Harmonics are what's lost with high capacitance cables. A defective dielectric layer is what causes high capacitance.

For the real dope read this:
Do Coat Hangers Sound As Good Monster Cables? - The Consumerist

Where speaker cables are concerned:
Speaker Wire

I've read a good bit on this subject. My argument is that this particular cable has outlasted all the other cables I've had since I bought it and it's been used more often as well. I have far more cheap cables than expensive ones. -Luke

 

[Plstrns]

>>>Even though its nice to "have the extra headroom", what do you gain by running your amp at 1/4 volume vs. me running mine at 3/4 volume?<<<

I'd like to know that, too.

What Brian said. Bass isn't level recorded music, it's more dynamic. If you run your rig at 3/4 of it's capacity you have about 1 db of headroom to deal with output peaks. If at 1/4 you have 6db, or 50% again more output potential.

 

[Munjibunga]

The only time I didn't have enough watts was when I had that blasted '65 Fender Bassman 50. It was horrid.

 

[BassmanPaul]

The only time I didn't have enough watts was when I had that blasted '65 Fender Bassman 50. It was horrid.

Amen to that Brother!

 

[Plstrns]

I've read a good bit on this subject. My argument is that this particular cable has outlasted all the other cables I've had since I bought it and it's been used more often as well. I have far more cheap cables than expensive ones. -Luke

Durability and ability are different things entirely.

 

[VS]

My posts were about durability, Bill's were about ability. I won't derail the thread any more. -Luke

 

[NWB]

Not having a problem isn't an indicator of not having paid too much. The Performer 500 has such high capacitance that it kills the high end; IMO a reputable manufacturer would deem it defective and not sell it at all.
As to these claims:
1. Ordinary instrument cables can robyour bass of its fundamental low-endpunch
False. The worst cable made won't affect the low end whatsoever.
2. Dualheavy-gauge bass conductorsand patented multiple-gauge wirenetworks deliver extended low-endfrequency response and widedynamic range.
No more so than any other cable.
3. Patented MicroFiber®dielectric provides quick transientsand full harmonics.
False. Harmonics are what's lost with high capacitance cables. A defective dielectric layer is what causes high capacitance.

For the real dope read this:
Do Coat Hangers Sound As Good Monster Cables? - The Consumerist

Where speaker cables are concerned:
Speaker Wire

Bill, I have one of those cables. It came free with a bass I bought.

Whether or not it was a good value seems debatable...

I suppose it would work well as a clothesline?

 

[Plstrns]

With Monster prices, I would think maybe a free bass with cable purchase.

If it sounds good to you, it sounds good enough. And, if you want to do some yoyo tricks with your bass, bonus!

 

[billfitzmaurice]

Bill, I have one of those cables. It came free with a bass I bought.

At least you didn't pay more for it than it's worth.

The only time I didn't have enough watts was when I had that blasted '65 Fender Bassman 50. It was horrid.

Mine worked pretty good when I ran it through a pair of Kustom 4x12s. But otherwise, not so much.

 

[BurningSkies]

What Brian said. Bass isn't level recorded music, it's more dynamic. If you run your rig at 3/4 of it's capacity you have about 1 db of headroom to deal with output peaks. If at 1/4 you have 6db, or 50% again more output potential.

I have a feeling that most people only understand the concept of 'headroom' in an abstract way. That's because most people are running 200-600w amps and there is so very little headroom involved. The first time you play an amplifier with substantial headroom it can be an eye opener. To get out of the science and it to the intangible side of things: it FEELS different. The dynamics are just much more open and responsive. The lows which tend to eat up wattage have a weight and clarity to them that doesn't happen with a smaller amp.

Am I running my amp at 3kw? No. I tend to run my rig at a potential of about 600w per cab. Then my volume attenuators are pulled back to about 1/3 of total output. I'd much rather have a big power running at idle than have small power running full out.

Most of the dudes who own Lamborghinis will never run them on a track or much above legal speed limit, even though they've got the horsepower and 12 cylinders to back it up. I have a feeling the magic is all in the acceleration rather than the top speed. Having an amp with 'horsepower' is sort of the same thing...

 

[Plstrns]

Absolutely.

Headroom is about merging onto the freeway, or accelerating over an incline, or passing effortlessly, not about top speed.

Well put.

Known as torque in the car world.

 

[JimmyM]

Absolutely.

Headroom is about merging onto the freeway, or accelerating over an incline, or passing effortlessly, not about top speed.

Well put.

Known as torque in the car world.

I agree, and that's why I never do a gig with less than 25 watts.

 

[Plstrns]

Jimmy no offense, but I don't think you're running across a 40ft stage or dealing with -solo guy guitarist and his 2 stacks or Double kick drummer dude with 2x4''s for sticks.

Bring your 25 watts to a metal gig and you'll do more good throwing it at a guitard than trying to hear it.