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If it is a "for fun" band then probably best to live with it if recording rehearsals does no good.This is the only band I'm in at the moment, and because of my WILDLY variable schedule (self-employed), probably the only one I'm going to be in for the foreseeable future. At least until I retire, which I'm projecting to be in about 5 more years (I'll be 70...).The others have families, jobs, commitments, as well. We play mostly for our own edification and fun, and do the occasional trip out of the "garage." I can't stress enough that these guys are my friends, *especially* the RG (we go back to the 4th grade, lol).We rehearse when everyone's schedule permits, which usually means @ 3 times a month. We enjoy the (original) music we make, and each others' company. Our 7 song CD, recorded a couple years ago, has received favorable comments from everybody who's heard it.
All that said, getting harsh with the guy is not going to work.This is not a business for us. Leaving is not something I'm willing to do for all the above reasons. I was looking for a solution which would help him pay attention and keep the tunes intact. Recording is one of the best options, IMHO.
I love the guy, and he just gets carried away, LOL.HE loves the music, and is enthusiastic, which is a good thing, again, IMHO. My plan is, when it happens again, to call a halt, and as someone above suggested, ask him what he's playing. I'll then say something to the effect that that wasn't how I understood it was supposed to go. We'll then break out the practice CD, listen, and take it from there. If he's in love with what he's doing, maybe make the changes if the others like it too. I am certainly not adverse to changing if it is going to sound better, especially if we're all on the same page.
In the band I am in (who are on the serious end of weekend warrior) I would only have to look at the guitarist and he would hold his hands up and say "sorry I cocked up there, what are the correct chords". If I am unsure of the chord progression I usually ask him before we start so I can at least hammer the roots until I get it burned into my brain.
I'm not sure I see the problem in this particular example as long as he stays diatonic.
Let's say your 1 chord is A minor. 3 chord is C major. Put 'em together - A C E G. What has changed? There's only one additional note in the guitar line. This will actually sound good. I think Police do this a lot.
2 chord is B dim, 4 chord is D minor. Put 'em together? B D F A. B minor 7 flat 5. Will sound good. There is no actual change in harmony.
But if he changes the harmony very erratically (especially if it goes off on a tangent that has no relation to the chords), yeah I could see that being a problem.
I'd wonder what was up with that too. One of the bands I was in used a blackboard to chart out a new song we were learning at the time - but this has already been proposed, and yes it can come across as passive-aggressive.
People who can't remember what they say often won't believe you so a chord chart is the best way to document it so that you don't argue. The problem is a lot of people are musically illiterate. Doesn't sound to be the case here.
When you are at rehearsal and anything deviates from that you stop and get it right. Otherwise you are practicing in mistakes and making zero progress. Simply do not continue the song. This will fix the problem. Unless the goal is to free form it to try different things out. At some point you have to freeze things. That's just my outside opinion of a non songwriter lol so really I don't know poopie
. Maybe the greatest songs were made this way.
People who can't remember what they say often won't believe you so a chord chart is the best way to document it so that you don't argue. The problem is a lot of people are musically illiterate. Doesn't sound to be the case here.
When you are at rehearsal and anything deviates from that you stop and get it right. Otherwise you are practicing in mistakes and making zero progress. Simply do not continue the song. This will fix the problem. Unless the goal is to free form it to try different things out. At some point you have to freeze things. That's just my outside opinion of a non songwriter lol so really I don't know poopie
Actually--I agree with you. I stop rehearsal when I am convinced one of us is making more than a simple mistake---
If the following happens--I stop, talk it out and redo:
Wrong form
wrong drum parts
wrong chord progressions
wrong lyrics
Rushing or dragging
sloppy or missed transitions etc...
If he's subbing chords in the way you're saying, then he's just adding extensions really.
Ex. He plays 3 instead of 1, but you are playing 1, then together you're playing 1maj7. If you're playing the 4 for vhord's root and he plays a 2, then together you are playing a 2maj6 chord.
Not saying he's right, but its really a small change in voicing and i personaly would tolerate it
Ex. He plays 3 instead of 1, but you are playing 1, then together you're playing 1maj7. If you're playing the 4 for vhord's root and he plays a 2, then together you are playing a 2maj6 chord.
Not saying he's right, but its really a small change in voicing and i personaly would tolerate it
Sounds like a tumor. I would just start looking for a replacement.
If he cannot solve the problem, suggest getting a different rhythm guitarist so he can concentrate on his background vocals. Get him a riser and some fancy clothes. Maybe a tambourine. The get him another background singer in a matching outfit and tell him he can give them a separate name. Tell him to watch "20 Feet From Stardom" and live it.
Lol. Reminds me of a drummer I know telling me how to jam with a new guitarist. The guy was playing mostly in 7/8, changing chords and patterns every other bar.
After I'd been lessoned on how to count to 7, and after I'd explained the time signature wasn't why I couldn't play along, I was told "just play the roots of what he's playing".
I said no and went home. Not a situation you'll thrive in.
After I'd been lessoned on how to count to 7, and after I'd explained the time signature wasn't why I couldn't play along, I was told "just play the roots of what he's playing".
I said no and went home. Not a situation you'll thrive in.
Have your sit down. Explain to him what you explained to us, and be prepared to listen to his reasoning. He helps writes songs. You admit that his songs are good. Maybe he's constantly revisiting/revising his songs to see if they can sound better, because he's unsatisfied with them. Maybe he's just spastic. Explain to him there's a time and place for noodling/rearranging and improvising. Someone suggested stopping him when he's starts to ramble and wander and getting him to say which chords are supposed to be played. Do it diplomatically, but make him lock into that part. Also, I would suggest not playing to him (i.e. by watching his fretting hand), but make him play to you. After all, you do know how the song is supposed to go. Be patient and gentle (because, friends), but hold him accountable. If he's any kind of musician at all, he'll want to get better. I hope. Oh, and make sure you have the rest of the band on your side....thinking it is going to be time for a sit-down soon. Help!
I can't hang with musicians who improvise everything. There is a drummer here locally who throws down sublime grooves, but he plays everything a little bit differently every time. I think about how good he is and start craving a session. Then I ask him to repeat some awesome thing he did on the last song and he can't remember exactly how he played it.
I have been in the same situation for the last year. Fortunately, it has come to a head and we have 2 shows left. My advice to you is Run away as fast as you can!
Ok, now I know he's more family than family, here's my advice: You already know what to do and say; and anything you do or say cannot possibly be any worse than anything you have done or said to one another in the past 50 years 
I have thought of something. Enthusiastically tell him which way gave you goosebumps and that when he went the other way, you felt a dreadful sense of loss that you missed that beautiful juxtaposition of the growl and chirp of our instruments in perfect harmony and..." you get the idea.
Nothing pleases the Artist more than the teary acclaim of "My Fans." And nothing will concentrate the mind so sharply as the need to repeat his triumph
I have thought of something. Enthusiastically tell him which way gave you goosebumps and that when he went the other way, you felt a dreadful sense of loss that you missed that beautiful juxtaposition of the growl and chirp of our instruments in perfect harmony and..." you get the idea.
Nothing pleases the Artist more than the teary acclaim of "My Fans." And nothing will concentrate the mind so sharply as the need to repeat his triumph
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It matters alot actually. You just tried to tell me that i can play the same thing for an A minor as well as for C major, and that just wont work most of the time. For one, the A is not a part of a C major chord, and the sound of minor and major chords are completely different. Working in the context of A minor is much different than C major, and you have to play them differently most of the time.
You are half right really, but if someone started throwing minor chords when it should be a major chord, i'm gonna have a problem with that.
Yes, I agree completely ( a difference between major / minor feel) . Not worth arguing about and I have neither the energy nor the inclination. Decide how the structure goes, learn the changes and sort it out. If you're not willing to do that, then look elsewhere for a player or band mates
I assume your band doesn't play jazz. Over the years, I played a LOT of jazz. Chord charts are nothing more than a guideline. Everyone had to listen to each other and adjust what they were playing on the fly. For me, that was when I had the most fun playing.
There are loads of people that can pick up a guitar and strum along with a song and get somewhere close to it. Unfortunately , this is the quality of player that you get in most bands these days. It's a whole different story to actually learn the notes and proper timings. I currently play in a band that has fairly skilled musicians in it. In the three years I have been with this group , we have had only three rehearsals. For the most part , if a new song comes up , we get an e-mail saying "We will be playing this song this weekend. Learn this version." Again , with skilled musicians , this is not a problem. For the most part , I try to learn stuff note for note. There may be a minor adjustment or two when we play it but if everybody has it really close to the original ,it works pretty well. Play the notes with the proper timing and it all comes together just fine. Newer or less skilled players are not going to be able to pull this off. To be honest , most just don't have the skills on their instrument to do this. I can't count the times I have been in bands and heard "We are going to to this song OUR way." The fact of the matter , in almost every case when I have heard this it is because they weren't good enough players to actually learn and play the song correctly. Most bands are going to have to put up with this. Most hobby and part time players have not had an opportunity to become as skilled as they would like to think they are. Sorry if this seems a bit harsh but in 50 years of playing , this has been my experience. YMMV.
Too true. Fact is, i am that person to an extent. I never liked to learn things note for note. I was a die hard improviser and master of the "jam." Problem is, folks dont want to go to a show to see a few guys noodling for a couple hours(well, most of the time). Eventually after trying to go legit in the rock space for a little while, i decided to go straight jazz. I felt that jazz gave me the freedom to go off the book but still play within a successful group and have an audience. Plus i simply like jazz and the spirit of it.
So now i get to improvise my bass lines in the walking sense, but still play within the harmonic/rhythmic scheme of the song. Luckily i didn't have to become a note for note recreator to play to an audience.
