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Rig for ultra low notes around 20 hertz

#62
AlecRob said:
Let’s be honest here….

Nothing good happens below 50hz
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Not true, but additional skill, responsibilities and good judgement come along with substantial quantities of sub-50Hz content.
 
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#63
FullumMusic said:
The short answer is yes. If you want to put low frequency sound waves into the air, you need a speaker designed to do that, and most of the speakers that do that are subwoofers designed to only reproduce low frequencies.

Also, the sub is only good for the sub frequencies, and you need a proper bass speaker or PA full-range to produce the rest of the frequencies.

--

The longer answer is, it gets complicated trying to do that in a useful way that sounds good when you're creating those frequencies on a physical instrument like a bass guitar.

The easiest wave-shape for a speaker to recreate, especially at low-frequencies is a perfect sine wave. Speaker moves in one direction, gradually stops, goes in the other direction, gradually stops, and back again. Other wave-shapes start adding complex or difficult movements for a low frequency speaker. Think about a "pure" square wave that goes back and forth between 1 and -1 digitally with no in-between. It's at value 1 and then the next sample it's at -1. The speaker can't do that. It has to travel through space and time to get from fully extended to fully retracted. Or something with a lot of upper harmonics. Tons of little micro-movements within the overall movements of out and in. (It's obviously more complex than this, but as a general idea.)

Pure sine waves are easy to make with synths, either digital or analog.

Bass guitars don't make pure sine waves. When you play those low notes, all the harmonics of the note are in that note. A string moving on a bass guitar and transformed to electrical signal by a pickup is very different from a nice "clean" synth waveshape.

So if you're running a full-range driver & a sub, there needs to be either a crossover splitting the signal to the mains and the subs, or the mains need a HPF to remove the lows, and the sub needs a LPF to remove any signal above what the lows. That's the basic setup.

But, you might find that the signal going to the sub needs to be treated differently from the signal going to the main speakers. It might need different compression and gain, and by nature of how much energy and space low frequencies need to be realized, every room you bring your rig is gonna need your rig set up completely differently to make the sub & main bass speakers to sound good together and in the room, without just booming or turning to mud or sounding like you're playing bass and then WHOAOAOAOAAOAOA you hit a sub-heavy note and it drowns out everything else in the band, or just sounds like the sub is shaking without filling the room.

Not to discourage you from getting those earth-shaking notes. Just to know it's gonna take a bit to work and sound good. It's not just "plug in a sub and away i go."

Or you can just play venues with subs and go direct and let the PA system & sound engineer do all the work for you. ;) 😆
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Thanks for the insight. I was looking into getting a small subwoofer as a start but don't know what the signal chain would be needed ro split. I have an A/B box stop switch but it almost sounds like this needs a signal choke of some kind on each side to make the most of the respective amps. Someone once told me a pre amp should also be up stream of the subwoofer but I was not sure what that was all about.
I am just a recreational hobbyist but the idea of getting on stage is getting more appeal. I think many venues have subs these days bit reasonable balance is the key it seems.
Thanks again for the insight. I find this fascinating to figure out.


ardgedee said:
If you have a DAW handy and can find a soundboard-sourced live recording of one of the bands that inspire you (youtube can a good source though you have to be able to tell the few legitimate accounts that put official, authorized videos up, as opposed to the thousands of dudes with cellphones), put the audio tracks in your DAW and watch the spectrum analyzer while you listen. I expect you'll find there's far less energy in the extreme bass than you think.

Using a live recording as a source means that you can hear how the band gets mixed at shows. Taking into account that on a good recording the tracks probably got re-EQed a bit for home and headphone, but the engineer still won't be able to add a whole lot of what wasn't there in the first place.
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Thanks for the genuinely modern and helpful tips. Looking at signal graph can be a very useful way to listen with your eyes rather than being seduced by the sirens song of flame top sunbursts.
 
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#65
SerfBassie said:
There are acoustic instruments like the controller bass that hit c0. I just think that it rarely has use. Maybe doomsday.
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There are plenty of possible uses for content below 50Hz, but it’s important for it to be used constructively and not to create other potentially worse issues.
 
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#66
Alex Xander said:
Also a bloke who was convinced any number of systems (include his telephone) could reproduce 17hz. A wealth of practical experience, but lacking on the technical understanding a little bit.

Thoroughly nice guy though.
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That would be a terrifying all to be on the receiving end of.
12BitSlab said:
If that “cabinet” were placed next to a house and driven at full power, would it be called the SmatterHorn?
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It would not Matter.
 
#71
Short4since64 said:
You'd know more than me. Did any of the later Sensurround productions have the LF effects recorded on the magnetic track rather than locally generated and triggered? Seems I heard simulated Doppler frequency shift in Midway when the planes flew overhead.
Also, for the subject of this thread - I play classical organ. The lowest standard pipe - low C pedal, 16ft tibia is pure fundamental a hair above 32Hz. You cannot hear that, it's just a throb in the air. Major cathedrals have a 32ft rank, square wooden pipes, 16Hz pure fundamental sine wave.
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www.osm.ca

The Octobasses - Orchestre symphonique de Montréal

A world premiere: 3 octobasses at the OSM
www.osm.ca www.osm.ca
 
#72
micguy said:
Yes, getting the different parts of a big sound system to work together is part of making it not suck, and there are lots of things that have to be done right to make it work. One of those is getting the subs to work well with the rest of the system. A good tour should have a system engineer capable of doing this. A good venue will hire that setup out, as it's only done once. If you're at the local pub, the subs probably weren't set up well....and there are probably other things wrong with the system's setup as well.
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I had a feeling that the instrument is only a small part of the portal to hearing 20 hz which biologically possible. An tips for what makes a good system function well?
 
#73
agedhorse said:
Not true, but additional skill, responsibilities and good judgement come along with substantial quantities of sub-50Hz content.
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Very accurate. My cabs hit low-E fundamental easily (3db hump at 45Hz then a sharp dropoff according to TS calculations) but that's only for me to feel and enjoy. The man at the other end of the snake applies the HPF (and the notch on the kick drum at resonance) so what the audience hears is snappy and free of mud and rumble.
 
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#76
I think chasing those tones is a true waste of time and money. For bragging rights? So you can say - did you hear (feel) that? Most people can't hear or feel it and most likely don't care. I don't think most people care whether I play my stereo at home though a small JBL boombox (like small!) or the B&W 802s in my living room that come close to 35hz.
 
#77
walking Bass said:
I think chasing those tones is a true waste of time and money. For bragging rights? So you can say - did you hear (feel) that? Most people can't hear or feel it and most likely don't care. I don't think most people care whether I play my stereo at home though a small JBL boombox (like small!) or the B&W 802s in my living room that come close to 35hz.
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Often, but not always this is true. It's important to understand and recognize the difference.
 

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