Roger's take, in a nutshell

[5StringBlues]

I'll fight you with 1 paw.

Hard to talk EBs without the whole package. I think it comes down to "how much" does it affect the tone, compared with "other factors", such as construction/configuration/pickups/electronics/strings. Some think they can hear a difference, others don't. For reasons stated above (e.g., not all wood is uniform), those that can hear it say you can't do a blind/scientific study (for whatever reason); but because of their experience, their dogma is not to be questioned.

So, each side will fight each other to the death - GO!....

Bill

(Edited to add) Just to be clear, the last line above is sarcasm (a joke), and not meant to instigate an insurrection!...

 

[TyBo]

Hard to talk EBs without the whole package. I think it comes down to "how much" does it affect the tone, compared with "other factors", such as construction/configuration/pickups/electronics/strings. Some think they can hear a difference, others don't. For reasons stated above (e.g., not all wood is uniform), those that can hear it say you can't do a blind/scientific study (for whatever reason); but because of their experience, their dogma is not to be questioned.

So, each side will fight each other to the death - GO!....

Bill

(Edited to add) Just to be clear, the last line above is sarcasm (a joke), and not meant to instigate an insurrection!...

I think characterizing people's experiences as "dogma" is not really helpful ...

And, returning to Sadowsky's take on this, an issue with doing a blind scientific study (though there have been a few, with mixed results) is that it's not just about what other people hear, but importantly about what the player themselves hear, and feel (touch/responsiveness matter, imo)
And of course ymmv, and likely does.

 

[FRoss6788]

but importantly about what the player themselves hear, and feel (touch/responsiveness matter, imo)
And of course ymmv, and likely does.

And THAT RIGHT THERE was the thrust of Roger's point, he even said as much towards the end of the video.

What the player feels and hears changes how he/she plays, it's quite simple.

 

[WRM]

I think characterizing people's experiences as "dogma" is not really helpful ...

And, returning to Sadowsky's take on this, an issue with doing a blind scientific study (though there have been a few, with mixed results) is that it's not just about what other people hear, but importantly about what the player themselves hear, and feel (touch/responsiveness matter, imo)
And of course ymmv, and likely does.

Sarcasm...

 

[TyBo]

Sarcasm...

Mmm, perhaps misplaced, given the tenor of some of these discussions. Easily taken as simply insulting, for what that's worth. Not a huge deal, either way, just ...

 

[WRM]

Here's another way to look at it - what (measurable) physical property "difference" between the woods are responsible for the perceived differences in tone?...

The only thing that all/any of them do is anchor the frets to the neck.

 

[GIBrat51]

Honestly? I don't really care, one way or the other. Roger Sadowsky is perfestly entitled to his opinions - which, I'm sure, are based on his many years of instrument building experience. I certainly do respect that experience - but, I still don't care. I didn't buy my 2 Rickenbackers, for example, because of their "tonewood" - body or neck/fretboard. I bought them because they sound like Ricks - and that's what I wanted. Same with every other one of my 27 basses.
Yeah, I know that the wood that my basses are made of, influences how they sound; but I don't think it's a major influence. I'm firmly in the "pickups and strings" camp. But, as they say: "It is a difference of opinion that makes horses race"...

 

[jonathanhughes]

The one good thing about threads like these is that it's easy to pick out whose profile you want to go to and click the "Ignore" button, because it's clear that none of their opinions are based in reality. Like the ones who think that Roger is somehow making extra profit when customers choose between two equally priced fingerboard woods.

 

[Jack Butler]

The king has ruled, no talking about pickups when having a tone discussion.

Oh, I'm sorry, Ithought the topic of the thread was Rogers video regarding finger board woods vs body wood and how it affects tone.

Electronics, was not and is not, part of that discussion.

 

[Jack Butler]

What if they only sell high end flats, that cost over $80 a set? Would you trust them to be objective on how rounds or cheaper flats sound?

Whatever you do, DON'T *EVER* trust a string seller to give you honest advice about the differences between rounds vs. flats. Their opinion is tainted and not to be trusted because they're just in business to deprive you of your hard-earned cash, and therefore patently evil people (because why else would they be in business, except to trick unsuspecting fools into parting with their money?).

 

[bassboysam]

And THAT RIGHT THERE was the thrust of Roger's point, he even said as much towards the end of the video.

What the player feels and hears changes how he/she plays, it's quite simple.

sure but it doesn't change the facts of whether or not the wood affects the sound. people believe all sorts of stuff to make themselves feel better and/or support their bias.

 

[bassboysam]

this is the most controlled test of tonewood i have come a cross. i'm sure people will pick it a part, but if you have a better experiment, i'd love to hear it.

 

[Mike Vee]

Here's the real point. Listen up:

80% of Talkbass is most likely amateur players (myself included) littered with semipro and some pro players and builders/designers. Just because you are on a thread regarding a Master Builder of legendary status considering his clientele doesn't mean you reserved the right to even think you can make uneducated guesses about him.

It's best to just not make a fool of yourself on here. It's the internet and it's a public forum.

So many fools made in this thread. Honestly a few really awful characters in here.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

What if they only sell high end flats, that cost over $80 a set? Would you trust them to be objective on how rounds or cheaper flats sound?

Did you even bother to watch the video? The premise was very simple, but it seems to have eluded you still.

But, sure, I'd trust someone who sells strings to tell me the basic differences between rounds and flats if I didn't have any clue. That's exactly what my analogy was. Your disingenuous twisting of the analogy is irrelevant because Roger doesn't only use "high end Maple" to the exclusion of "rosewood and cheap maple". But, whatever.

FWIW, I don't own any Sadowskys and I've only played a Metro once about 15 years ago. I do have a pre/DI that I like, but that's the extent of my connection to Sadowsky. I have owned and assembled a lot of basses, and swapped a lot of pickups over the last 35 years, and I'd agree with the original premise that the biggest contributing factor as far as woods go is in the fingerboard. I'd also extend that to the neck. I don't sell basses, so you can trust my word as Truth.

 

[Petethebassman]

I watched the video and I agree with Roger's thinking. My $ .02 on the subject: I have two P-Basses, one is alder body with rosewood fretboard, the other one has a ash body with 1-piece maple neck. Both have the same Aguilar pickup (4P-60). I tried Pyramid Gold flatwounds on both, they were a much better match with the ash/maple bass, on the alder/rosewood P-Bass they were a bit muddy and lacked definition in the lows. Same amp with same settings.

 

[Fun Size Nick]

Or, it could be that building thousands of basses over the course of decades affords the opportunity to learn first hand what the effect of various standard wood types have on the sound.

Both of these things can be true. Nowhere have I said that Sadowsky is wrong, or a bad person or anything like that. I (and several others) are just saying that he is not an unbiased source, and that the mystique around wood is of benefit to his business and to other high-end manufacturers. Again, a dairy farmer can teach you a lot of good stuff about milk, but isn’t an unbiased source on the topic. That doesn’t make them a bad source, but the idea that they should be an authoritative source who cannot be challenged in any way based on their experience is questionable to me.

 

[Tom Bomb]

I like Illegetimi non Carborun-dummies now.​

 

[TyBo]

Both of these things can be true. Nowhere have I said that Sadowsky is wrong, or a bad person or anything like that. I (and several others) are just saying that he is not an unbiased source, and that the mystique around wood is of benefit to his business and to other high-end manufacturers. Again, a dairy farmer can teach you a lot of good stuff about milk, but isn’t an unbiased source on the topic. That doesn’t make them a bad source, but the idea that they should be an authoritative source who cannot be challenged in any way based on their experience is questionable to me.

What specifically would be the bias here? That Roger is using wood to build his instruments,, so therefore can't be relied upon to talk about wood? Not talking about exotic woods here, standard alder, ash, maple, rosewood, mostly looking at the latter two with fingerboards. An assertion of bias there seems weak.
One can say it's his opinion, which he declares himself straightaway. It is a very informed opinion, and one I'm ready to pay attention to.

 

[dabbler]

My experiences with my value guitars match Roger's observations.

It is easily heard playing alone and most likely not noticed or appreciated by the average person in the audience, but I do choose which one I play based on what I want in a given set.

Opinions are free and everybody's got one and different strokes for different folks. So I don't care if it doesn't matter to others, but I really have little respect for folks who make assumptions about why a bass designer would say something if they haven't done the comparison themselves!

And yes, there IS a variance of different pieces of wood of the same species, but all that means in my book is that there are exceptions to every generalization. But that does not mean the generalization is not generally true, and useful.

Also, PLEASE don't compare the impact of body wood with neck woods. When you strike a string on a bass EVERYTHING vibrates. The string vibrates the most and so string construction contributes significantly to the sound. But the neck vibrates SIGNIFICANTLY more than the body. So wouldn't you expect neck construction changes to have MORE tonal impact than body construction changes?

As a closing observation, those who have stated that Roger makes a lot of money when people buy instruments with exotic woods WHAT has THAT got to do with a choice between maple or rosewood on a fretboard?????

 

[Fun Size Nick]

What specifically would be the bias here? That Roger is using wood to build his instruments,, so therefore can't be relied upon to talk about wood? Not talking about exotic woods here, standard alder, ash, maple, rosewood, mostly looking at the latter two with fingerboards. An assertion of bias there seems weak.
One can say it's his opinion, which he declares himself straightaway. It is a very informed opinion, and one I'm ready to pay attention to.

I’ve already explained what I mean by this - I’m out.